[Cov]

By the way ... I just noticed the OP started this thread in July 2007.
That was almost 1 year ago.
Remarkable, cause this subject could have been from 5 years ago and unfortunately will still be floating in 5 years time.

Sorry to say that, but the fact that we still don't have changes to the better, has to do with the herd mentality in this country.

This has to be considered when talking about an issue as big as this one.

[Bluey]

I read recently that despite the fact that the percentage of people living in social housing in the UK has declined from around a third to 12%, the UK has the highest availability of social housing in Europe. There may be huge waiting lists but compared to many other countries, private renting is the norm.

So does this mean that the UK working class are hankering for the provision of social housing that largely doesn't exist here anymore, nor is particularly common elsewhere?

In other words, there's great demand and expectation for it to be provided despite evidence that, contextually, there's relatively generous provision compared with the rest of Europe and that the demand isn't matching the reality that there isn't really the infrastructure in place for it anymore.

[Cov]

Very interesting point.

Please correct me if I'm wrong with my following presumptions:

Our housing market is divided between ...

- Privately owned property. been let to private tenants.
- Privately owned property, been let to the council ... to be "sublet" to their tenants.
- Property owned and administered by the council.

I'm under the impression that property rented from the council prevents the tenant being over charged as the rent has been assessed apropriate.
Not so with private property, where tenants can be charged any ammount without limits.

I'm from a country where most people rent and don't own. Many big companies own whole blocks of buildings for their employees to rent.
For the rent I pay here in London for a medium sized room in 1 week, I can get a 1 bedroom flat for one whole month from the place I come from.
The reason for the low number of privately owned properties might be the low rent in general ?

I noticed that buying properties is heavily promoted in UK.
And in fact, I understand that the buying market has 1000 times more to offer than the renting market - if you can finance it.
That's pretty sad and ignores completely that the conditions to qualify are so very hard and out of reach for most of us.

Well, if you say that the barrier to climb the first step onto the property ladder is similar in different countries, you might be right.
But what makes our housing market then different to others ?

Here is what I think:

The demand is certainly so much higher than the supply.
New supply is only affordable by wealthy people.
Old supply is been given to the people who're most in need and there are a lot.
What is left ?

I have an average income and live in a single room because I'm still single.
If I had family, I wouldn't be able to afford renting a flat to provide my wife & child(ren) with the minimum. How do people survive then ?

Something doesn't add up. Something is not right in our society. What is it ?

[Bluey]

Cov,

The origin of the first ever social housing in the UK in Victorian times was premised on the working poor - the decent working class and not what was considered then to be the shiftless and idle, which would now be classed as vulnerable, needy and unemployed.

Even much later on, councils had criteria in which to select tenants of their choosing.

Now social housing automatically goes to the neediest but that wasn't always the case and now it's seen to have created ghettoes, particularly since the best stock went into private hands through buy to let.

The quantity of social housing that was once enjoyed will NEVER be restored yet people are flinging themselves into ever greater numbers at it, creating social tensions around its allocation. The sense of entitlement to it doesn't seem to have gone away as the stock has dwindled.

People are hankering for a return to a more mixed approach to social housing which doesn't prioritise the non-working families with children and those given indefinate leave to remain in the UK. Also, tenancies for life are being attacked, after research has uncovered that many that have social housing tenancies earn above the national wage.

See this article here

The assumption that homeless people should automatically qualify for a social home for life should be ditched, an influential local authority leader has urged... "Let's move away from an assumption from the focus on [housing the] vulnerable in a home for life on a social housing estate."

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/article/?id=1450205

[acantho]

Basically if you are a white single male - forget about even applying for council housing - we are the only group without any sort of pressure group so nobody bothers - but we are the backbone of this country but get treated like the shit on it's shoe!

I've claimed unemployment benefit for a couple of weeks a year or so ago - the guy getting interviewed next to me had moved from Ethiopia to an adjacent country (can't remember which) and then to the UK each time as an economic migrant - no persecution - or refugee status - or asylum seeking purely economic terms.

He was living in a house given to him by social services, the rent was being paid for by the unemployment office and he was trying to get money off of them to decorate the place!!!!!!!!

What hope is there for us who's families have lived in this country as far back as records go but still we can't even get on a waiting list for a council house when folk who aren't even from countries in the EU or commonwealth get given houses rent free and then still try and scam more out of our services - services that where put there as a safety net for people from this country who had hit a bad patch.

It makes me so F*CKING ANGRY!!!!!

[bigblueeyes]

[Cov]

ah, forget council housing. I found something better ...




o main door with tie-backs, side entrance with roll-up door
o Sewn-in groundsheet for outdoor use
o Size (H)104, (W)100, (D)100cm
o Ideal as an alternative for social housing
o no deposit needed !

Please be aware that you can't claim housing benefit for this accommodation.

only £9.99
was £14.99 ... save £5.- !

[Norm the Unsavoury]

does that mean that you could move to the tent then apply to the council cos your overcrowded???

[by-the-book]

after reading these posts i thought id get my two pence worth, i grew up in a council house and it was definitly not the way it is today, in reality its the select scum of the earth who have tarnishd the reputation of all who live in a council house!i am a firm believer that the people most at need of these ammenities dont get it as they are not willing or able to rip the system off, when growing up in council accomodation we never had a lot and always lived on the breadline and i refused to get sucked in when i was older i know work 2 jobs for 15 hours a day and what do i get... nothing! my life is a general stugle, theres not enough support in this country for those who honestly need it and to much help to those who know how to work the system!im sick of hearing that girls are having babies and saying "at least i get a house" ive been over to these peoples houses they got better tvs, sofas, kitchens than ill ever have.
it did not used to be like this so i guess weve got our wonderfull government to thank for that.
I relly do feel for the poeple that have no other choice and get treated like criminals, my advise to you read up on the system and go for it!

[acantho]

You're the wrong, colour, religion, ethnic background, you come from this country, your male, you actually want to work (and do most of the time), you're not a scrounger, you're not a freeloader, etc etc etc.

If any one of the above applies to you even ever so slightly you've no fucking chance of a council house - if you want one - destroy all your documents get arrested at a port (or similar) claim you come from another country (but just happen to be fluent in English) and you'll get everything that's going - and not have to find a job either.

But basically if you are a single white straight male - you are at the bottom of every list - unless of course there is a war and they are looking to call people up for the armed services - then you'll be strait to the top of that list!!! This country and the way it is run by all the bleeding heart liberals and far left scummers on local councils and every other decision making body makes me so bloody angry I could crush a grape - with my bare hands as well!!!

Yes I'm annoyed and angry at it - just in case you hadn't noticed!

[Cov]

[acantho]

OUCH!!!! there where seeds in those!

[Cov]

Nurse ! ... 100mg anti seeds poisoning please !

[crabs]

[crabs]

[crabs]

[Cov]

[Bluey]

You might enjoy this thread here and it's links

http://ukcommentators.blogspot.com/2007/07/excellent-bbc-programme.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/file_on_4/6900925.stm

In the first one it describes how the needs based policy is seen by some as unfair and how those that are deemed as 'homeless' are given priority but the numbers of those presenting themselves as homeless is rocketing. It alleges that recently arrived economic migrants and those granted asylum can go straight to the top of the queue, that economic migrants with urgent needs, will usually be housed in place of local families who’ve just been waiting a long time because local connections and length of time on the list no longer counts.

"The 'most in need' used to be a small category. It consisted of people burnt out or flooded and women fleeing domestic violence.

The actual 'homeless' numbers were very tiny but since the mid 90's hundreds of thousands people, if not millions, have moved to the UK and become eligible for public housing.

The GLA published a report a few years ago which said that of the 17,000 odd new tenancies allocated in London for that year, nearly half went the 'homeless'. ...

In 1996 Barking and Dagenham's 'homeless' consisted of ten families. In 2006 it was 565."

[markie b]

well ive read all of this and have to say it sucks being an english male!i was born breed and lived in the uk all my life ive worked my whole life and not been on the dole or claimed nothing ever! i applied to the council 4 years ago and applied for council accomadation they asked me what i was after and i said i dont mind just want somewhere to sleep that i can afford to live to and the woman who was doing the interview asked me if i worked i said yes she aske if i have lived in the uk all my life i said yes she asked if i had children i said no she asked if i was a drug addict i said no she looked up and said not being funny but you dont stand a chance!but how ever if i had said i was on benifit gotten a someone pregnant and/or was an immigrant my chances where much greater 4 years on im still living at home with my parents its seriously wrong i cant afford to rent and there is no way of getting out of this situation i dont have good grades and not very computer minded im a manual labour kind of guy but even tho ive paid all my taxes and been screwed by the government i cant get a house/flat or nothing!
everything is so high because poverty = control by the government all the bills going higher taxes raising all the time just puts people in a hole so they cant survive without debt!
something id like to know is whats hapened to all the money from the right to buy thing all those houses that were sold surely they were going to re-build new to compensate for those that were sold?

[reens]

how much could you afford?

[crabs]

[crabs]

oh btw your better off not working getting some qualifications, if your signing on its free depending on what level and let the tax payer fund you like they fund everyone else.

[Bluey]

Firstly, you have to remember that apparently the UK has the second highest rate of social housing in Europe after the Netherlands (can't find anything to substantiate this though). Around five million households, or just under one-fifth of all households are in social housing.

Turnover in the social rented sector is only around 3.4%, or an average tenancy of thirty years, which means there's not much churn.

Secondly, 1 in 20 social housing allocations goes to someone who is born overseas.

I came across a report, probably a few years old, that said London is footing the bill for 56,000 households in temporary housing that costs £500,000 per year. Also that each loss of a council tenancy adds £16k per annum and each property bought under Right to Buy causes a loss of £56k to the public purse.

It also indicates that regeneration schemes are impacted - as there is a surge of right to buy when investment is targetted at them, including purchasing them when they know their properties will be demolished to benefit from the windfall associated with buying it for 20k for example, then selling it back to the council for £120k under the buy-back scheme.