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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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 Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| I forgot to add "no fires?" |
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k_lifter
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 7031
Location: Don't watch tv - the mind has no firewall.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Ploppy wrote: | | LittleMinX wrote: | hehehe damn ploppy you arent very playful today at all. Ok, I will stop being fiesty and go back to my book reading. But before I do....just to re-state:
I dont think I accept non govt theories as automatically true....
and if you only accept stories that are backed by "better proof" then why accept the governments?? Complacent?  |
I dont.
But why automatically accept the "it must be a conspiracy" one either?
The comment on molten steel I am about to reply to is a perfect example - there is an alternative theory, but that is ruled invalid, because it doesnt fit the Pro-conspiracy story? |
Because there becomes a time when, the governments cover ups, screw ups and destruction of the crime scene becomes so discustingly illegal and obvious as to cover up their agenda that, you have to go with what you think is the case. I think 911 was a complete and utter false flag operation, they even have the audacity to state in the PNAC document "they need a catalysing event like a new pearl harbour". Guess who wrote that? Donald Rumsfeld and his cronies. This is how much these guys can rub it in your face....AND PEOPLE STILL WONT EVEN ENTERTAIN THE POSSIBILITY!!! It's painfully obvious it was carried out by the US. In the future the sheep that followed the government will be looked upon like the sheep that followed Hitler. "how could of those idiots not noticed"....the reason...Mass denial, PsyOps and redundant critical thought bought about by a western aragonce. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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K, it is obvious that is what they thought.
Just like you seem to think it is obvious that it is the situation now (and some Us senate members etc)
...
doesnt make it so, though. |
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k_lifter
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 7031
Location: Don't watch tv - the mind has no firewall.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Ploppy wrote: | | I forgot to add "no fires?" |
Smoking fires that were burning things like desks and and carpet...Still not hot for that women to stand within close proximity. There are so many fires in different building throughout the world that are still standing after blazes that were 1000 times worse and went on for days. Yet you produce a little bonfire that I could toast my marsh mellows on. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| k_lifter wrote: | | Ploppy wrote: | | I forgot to add "no fires?" |
Smoking fires that were burning things like desks and and carpet...Still not hot for that women to stand within close proximity. There are so many fires in different building throughout the world that are still standing after blazes that were 1000 times worse and went on for days. Yet you produce a little bonfire that I could toast my marsh mellows on. |
And with as many cut external support pillers?
And here you can see the floor failing.
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k_lifter
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 7031
Location: Don't watch tv - the mind has no firewall.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Ploppy wrote: | K, it is obvious that is what they thought.
Just like you seem to think it is obvious that it is the situation now (and some Us senate members etc)
...
doesnt make it so, though. |
Sometimes you just need to turn the tv off, and think, what if. I did, and I left the military because of it. For me, I know the US carreid out 911 -- they went into two wars because of it. It was the pretext for everything that's hapening in the world now. It was the false flag operation of all false flag operations and was carried out with military precision within a compartmentalised system. it is the key to making a the world a better place, and should be looked into critically by as many experts as possible. Why if, the government had nothing to hide do they stil only release minimum amounts of info? To me that has guilt written all over it. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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My point I guess to all this is when someone says "there were no fires sufficient to bring the tower down" or some other statement about something else, then when I go and look into it, and see that there is other evidence, I find it makes that theory somewhat ... questionable.
Does my presenting these pictures "prove" it was a plane that brought down the towers, and the Goverenment theory is correct?
No.
Does my presenting "prove" that some of the arguments put forward to show it wasnt as the Government says are incorrect?
Yes. |
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k_lifter
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 7031
Location: Don't watch tv - the mind has no firewall.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Ploppy, what about all the internal collumns that held the actual building up?
As soon as those small amounts of external beams failed, there weight would redistribute across the rest. This quote says it all "it would be like poking a pencil into a mosquito net". Also, what caused the beams bellow to fail so quickly as to allow the building fall so quickly? Are you trying to tell me, those small uneven fires caused all that? |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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K, we could swap pictures all day.
If the pencil was as wide as a plane, your anolgy might stand.
Look at even your own impact pictures. Many colums were cut. Also, the design of the building was to place load on both the outside and centre - no internal colums to block the view inside, like in "normal" office buildings. Look at how the floors were built - the broken fire-proofing on them too.
As for "small" fires, do we really need to compare shots? Are you really telling me you have not seen any pictures showing large fires?
And the fall speed is a perfect example too - the "free-fall" arguement seems to be pretty flawed - as I said earlier, even in the video posted last night, you can clearly see the building didnt fall at any where near free-fall. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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I like the way my comments on the youtube video pointing out the free-fall theory was rubbished by their own video have somehow "vanished" too.
Hmmm. How weird.
"Truth movement" huh? |
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k_lifter
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 7031
Location: Don't watch tv - the mind has no firewall.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Ploppy wrote: | K, we could swap pictures all day.
If the pencil was as wide as a plane, your anolgy might stand.
Look at even your own impact pictures. Many colums were cut. Also, the design of the building was to place load on both the outside and centre - no internal colums to block the view inside, like in "normal" office buildings. Look at how the floors were built - the broken fire-proofing on them too.
As for "small" fires, do we really need to compare shots? Are you really telling me you have not seen any pictures showing large fires?
And the fall speed is a perfect example too - the "free-fall" arguement seems to be pretty flawed - as I said earlier, even in the video posted last night, you can clearly see the building didnt fall at any where near free-fall. |
The reason I posted that picture is because you implied that the exoskeleton was the only strength the building had, when infact it wasn'ta tall! It was the 40+ inner columns (that NIST initially denied existed) that bore most of the weight and was most resistant to failure. Don't forget these buildings were over designed to take a plane hit.
| Quote: | | If the pencil was as wide as a plane, your anolgy might stand. |
A pencil the size of a plane into a mosquito net, eh?!? I didn't saying thing about the size of the mosquito net did I, so it does still stand in my eyes.
Large fires with smoke, as any fire professional will tell you, is fire without oxygen. The fires were minimal compared with other fires on other stil-standing buildings. Remember that day was the only day in history a building fell due to fires. |
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k_lifter
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 7031
Location: Don't watch tv - the mind has no firewall.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Ploppy wrote: | I like the way my comments on the youtube video pointing out the free-fall theory was rubbished by their own video have somehow "vanished" too.
Hmmm. How weird.
"Truth movement" huh? |
They say within 14 seconds....NIST even approximates it within that time frame, so you are debunking yourself. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| k_lifter wrote: | | Ploppy wrote: | I like the way my comments on the youtube video pointing out the free-fall theory was rubbished by their own video have somehow "vanished" too.
Hmmm. How weird.
"Truth movement" huh? |
They say within 14 seconds....NIST even approximates it within that time frame, so you are debunking yourself. |
Free-fall is 9 seconds (roughly) |
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k_lifter
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 7031
Location: Don't watch tv - the mind has no firewall.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ploppy wrote: | | k_lifter wrote: | | Ploppy wrote: | I like the way my comments on the youtube video pointing out the free-fall theory was rubbished by their own video have somehow "vanished" too.
Hmmm. How weird.
"Truth movement" huh? |
They say within 14 seconds....NIST even approximates it within that time frame, so you are debunking yourself. |
Free-fall is 9 seconds (roughly) |
And?!?! 14 seconds even as a conservative estimate is still physically impossible. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Firstle, why use the phrase "free-fall" if it isnt? That is misleading, would you not agree? Yet you yourself have used it many times (not to mention the videos using it all the time)
Dr Frank Greening seems to have made a pretty good model showing it is possible - 14 to 16 seconds.
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm
Again, this doesnt prove that the Government theory stands, but it does prove that statements like this "14 seconds even as a conservative estimate is still physically impossible." are wrong - as it seems to be physically possible. |
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hmmmm_maybe
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 3967
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| This frank a structural engineer? |
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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: |
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a dumbass cover up, onlt the americans could think of! and somehow get away with????
i love the bit that the plane caused 3 buildings to fall down, from the "intense" heat, bu somehow one of the hijackersw passports was found
HILARIOUS
plus the fact, that 5-10 of the so called hijackers are still alive lol
watch loose change 2
OR
www. zeitgeistthemovie.com |
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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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hmmmm_maybe
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 3967
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| KillerK wrote: | a dumbass cover up, onlt the americans could think of! and somehow get away with????
i love the bit that the plane caused 3 buildings to fall down, from the "intense" heat, bu somehow one of the hijackersw passports was found
HILARIOUS
plus the fact, that 5-10 of the so called hijackers are still alive lol
watch loose change 2
OR
www. zeitgeistthemovie.com |
haha yes his passport, travelled through his pocket, out of the window, through the inferno and landed at the feet of a cop a block or so away, totally in tact! |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| KillerK wrote: | a dumbass cover up, onlt the americans could think of! and somehow get away with????
i love the bit that the plane caused 3 buildings to fall down, from the "intense" heat, bu somehow one of the hijackersw passports was found
HILARIOUS
plus the fact, that 5-10 of the so called hijackers are still alive lol
watch loose change 2
OR
www. zeitgeistthemovie.com |
this is piece meal arguments.
are you suggesting there were no planes?
explosives? |
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hmmmm_maybe
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 3967
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| no we're suggesting as you are begining to realise, the official story stinks. Who knows what really happened, until they open an investigation. Why no investigation as demanded by the family of those killed? |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| hmmmm_maybe wrote: | | no we're suggesting as you are begining to realise, the official story stinks. Who knows what really happened, until they open an investigation. Why no investigation as demanded by the family of those killed? |
i was talking earlier to your misses - have you ever watched "Yes Minister" and "Yes Primeminister" fro the 70's? |
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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: |
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there were planes.
God knows the real details tho, rupert murdoch only lets us know what he wants us to know.
And that is the bottom line. We are educated selectively only.
e.g. we only know 911 happened, cos we saw it on tv.
if we hadnt have we prob woldnt know, unless someone else told us.
Most of out info is second hand and therefore contains oppinion, Someone elses, and that is precisely what out tvs are there for. |
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hmmmm_maybe
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 3967
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| No haven't seen those programs, just caught half an episode here n there. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| KillerK wrote: | there were planes.
God knows the real details tho, rupert murdoch only lets us know what he wants us to know.
And that is the bottom line. We are educated selectively only.
e.g. we only know 911 happened, cos we saw it on tv.
if we hadnt have we prob woldnt know, unless someone else told us.
Most of out info is second hand and therefore contains oppinion, Someone elses, and that is precisely what out tvs are there for. |
well, that might have been the case 10 years ago.
now, you have the net - and this is why we have soooo many different versions of events for the Sept 11.
if i was the govt, i imagine i would ignore people on here too - no-one will ever be happy with any enquiry, and why give my enimies the chance to try and cause me problems? |
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