[rpb]

I am planning a 2-3 week tour in Africa later this year and have narrowed it down to Absolute Africa or Africa Travel Co. Any tips/advice on what these companies are like? Is one more a party tour than the other? What are their reputations? Thanks!

[Travel4Eva]

I dont know those companies at all, but I do know that a place called go2africa.com is very well known for that sort of thing.

Maybe they can help

[brett louw]

Hi,

What are you looking to do in South Africa. I used to work in the travel industry there for over 10 years. Let me know where u are looking to go and what you are looking to do and I can give you some help.

I now live here in the UK.

Brett

[john stevens]

i went on the most amazing trip to africa!!!! www.unlimitedafrica.co.uk

or give them a call 0208 731 2111 they really put together the best itinerarys

[rujo]

I have just returned from an Africa Travel Company (ATC) tour Vic Falls to Nairobi via the gorrillas, I cannot begin to describe how bad it was. I use the words unethical, dishonest and incompetent advisedly to describe this company and its tour guide (the drivers and cooks were blameless and did a good job).
I will be posting a lenthy review elsewhere in time but for the moment would like to warn any prospective overlanders off ATC. In particular be aware that if you book with Go 2 Africa ATC is the company you will be travelling with. I suspect ATC has gone to some lengths to hide the fact that it is the operator and hides behind agents thus securing bookings even in the light of dreadful online reviews.

Choose ATC for leaking tents, food rationing, exploitation of local people, ignorance of Africa, promoting illegal viewing of gorillas and incompetent and dishonest guides

[Plutarch]

rujo, I don't know what troubles you've had with ATC, but what you say about Go2Africa isn't true - they use lots of overland suppliers, including Nomad/Whichway, Wildlife, Oasis, Drifters, Sunways...

I know that ATC are the only overland company that guarantee permits to see the gorillas, so maybe that's why Go2Africa use them.

Please direct us to your review of ATC, when you post it? I'd be interested.

[rujo]

Plutarch, I take your point about Go2Africa and have no quibble with them as they did a very good job in relation to the rest of our trip and i'm sure are not aware (yet) of the problems with ATC. I have noticed from their website that they use other companies however there is no mention of ATC which is odd.
As for ATC guaranteeing gorilla permits, that is what they say and that is possibly why people go with them but that is not the reality. There were nearly 30 of us on the ATC gorillas trip and ATC offered 8 of us (the 8 who waited 3 days in kisoro in uganda to get permits) the chance to see the gorillas without permits - we were told by the ATC guide that when we entered the national park we would have to lie to the rangers and say that we were going to the pygmy village not to the gorillas and then we could double back and be taken to see the gorillas by George (ATC's man in uganda). The USD 400 for the gorilla would still be payable to ATC of course but, i was told by the ATC guide, would go in kick-backs to get us in. Of course, not being total fools and irresponsible travellers we rejected the suggestion out of hand. The incident left me with no doubt (if any existed beforehand) of ATC's lack of integrity. All that guff in the intinerary about your money going to the protection of the gorillas (which is true if your money is used to buy permits) turned out to be just that. This is only one of many stories from our trip and i will post my full review here when it is written.

[smelgs]

I too have just returned from an 8 week ATC trip, Nairobi - Cape Town - with the loop out to see the Gorillas in the Congo, and i have nothing but great things to say about the tour, and the staff. Actually this is my second trip with this company. The first time was a few years ago and i did Vic Falls to Cape Town.....i loved that one so much i was determined to go again and chose to use the same company because i was so impressed the first time - and was certainly not disappointed this time either! Not everything in Africa is predictable and that should be understood before travelling there. The staff do a brilliant job, sometimes having to deal with difficult and uncontrollable situations and i would highly recommend ATC to anyone looking to travel in Africa. I will be going back for a third time and doing another one of their trips as soon as i can save the funds.

[rujo]

I am really glad you had a such good time, as did i, i just think the company is unethical and dishonest in how it deals with customers and locals.

Of course africa is unpredictable but you pay for some of that unpredictability to be taken out of the equation and particularly you are not paying for people to actually put obstacles in your way and actively create difficult and potentially dangerous situations which is what happened on our ATC trip.

Here is a fuller summary of my experience:

1) The tour left without us initially due to miscommunication and after waiting 4 hours we finaly caught up with the truck by chance(3 others who joined the trip separately were stranded without their pre-arranged transfers) no apology or proper explanation;

2) the first item on the itinerary was cancelled and the explanation we were given was different to that given to others - both explanations unacceptable;

3) the tents leaked badly and we were promised new ones in nairobi but instead got different, worse tents - had to pay for own upgrades to stay dry;

4) the ‘tour leader’ know nothing about Africa and had even less interest in the place - where you can get your next bottle of vodka seemed to be the main pre-occupation; we had the contents of her ipod inflicted upon us on the truck (banging 80's rock at 6am most mornings). She bombarded us with gossip about other ATC employees and their substance abuse

5) there were food shortages which led to disputes within the group about lunch rationing - i heard that the budget for food (3 meals) is $3 per day - outrageous considering what we paid and not enough;

6) We were told about 6 days in advance that the company decided we would see the gorillas in the DRC when this was obviously the most volatile country of the 3 (all you had to do was open a newspaper to see that rebels in DRC had been hunting and had killed 2 silverbacks there in the previous month) - we found out from a guide on another overland company's truck (staying in the same campsite) that we could see them in rwanda for the same price and all of us in one day by calling someone called Greg 48 hours in advance (we had been told by the ATC guide that the other company had booked 6 months in advance for these permits and that they had paid 550 USD – this was shown to be untrue) - we obtained Greg’s number and offered it to our guide who refused it and said the DRC would be fine. A ‘vote’ was staged so that we could ‘decide’ where to see the gorillas but the group was not given a real alternative to the DRC and were misinformed. Of course when we got to the border it transpired we could not go to the DRC as the park had been closed due to rebel activity and we had to wait 3 days so that all could get permits for Uganda and this caused us to waste 2 whole days waiting for permits – we lost our two day stay in Lake Bunyoni as a result;

7) the ATC guide offered us the option of seeing the gorillas in uganda a day early without a permit - this, we were told, would involve lying to the rangers at the national park and telling them that we were going to a pygmy village and the USD400 would still be payable but would go in “kickbacks” rather than to the preservation and protection of the gorillas. ATC clearly were happy to encourage its clients to break the law in this respect and put themselves and the gorillas at risk. This total lack of integrity came as no surprise at this stage in the trip. It was about to get even worse.

the masai mara had just reopened after being closed due to flooding. 4 days in advance, we asked whether we could have 4WDs as the 18 ton 2WD ATC truck was likely to get stuck in the mud (we had seen an ATC completely stuck up to its back axle in mud in the serengeti which was much drier). we were told this was unnecessary so 7 of us went ahead and arranged our own 4WD for the game drive anyway. The ATC truck did of course get stuck on the way into the park and we were out pushing it up to our knees in mud at 10pm in the middle of the national park. It had to be abandoned and was towed to the entrance to the park the next day where it stayed. No 4WDs were arranged for those who had not made their own arrangements and they sat in the camp the next day and saw nothing of the masai mara.

9) our game drive in the 4wd we privately paid for was great and we arranged with the driver (who was an excellent guide) that we would do a half day the next day and return to nairobi with him (we decided to do this as the last day of the tour was to involve driving to naivasha with the great likelihood of arriving after dark due to the roads). When we returned to camp, the ATC guide threatened the manager of the camp (who was the contact for our driver) with the sack and our driver (who relies on ATC for contacts with customers) with losing business if the driver kept his agreement with us. She was overheard threatening these two men and pressurising them to lie to us and she was overheard doing so in very abusive terms. It is difficult to imagine why ATC would go to these lengths to stop its customers making their own arrangements when the trip had failed them (and everyone else) so badly. We initially thought it was pure spitefulness but have since concluded that it was probably an effort to save reputation and a further lowering of morale as serious rumblings of discontentment were taking root in the tour and others would be (and probably were) aghast to arrive after dark in naivasha on the following day after a 10 or 12 hour drive and turn around for nairobi the next day after not having seen the masai mara properly when others were enjoying their second game drive there and returning to nairobi in comfort. We and 2 others left the tour at this point and had to find our own way back to Nairobi .

ATC not only failed to provide what it promised to deliver in its brochures but showed itself to be prepared to sanction irresponsible tourism, bully local people and go out of its way to actively obstruct its customers' enjoyment of their holiday. A disgrace.

[outrageoustravel]

I have recently travelled with ATC and having done the gorilla trek myself I would like to disagree with the comments made on this forum! our experience was fantastic, everyone who wanted to see the gorillas was given a permit to do so. The logistics of the gorilla trek are different between Uganda, Rwanda and the DRC, only 8 permits are issued per day for the sake of the gorillas. If the treks are to be done over a number of days due to this than this is something that needs to be accepted as part of the process! I felt my money was going to a good cause and the officials involved conducted themseves in a professional manner. Our ATC tour leader did everything in her means to ensure everyone who wanted to was able to view the gorillas in a safe and legal fashion! Well done to her and thank you for the experience- truly one I shall not forget!Remember that travelling in Africa is not easy: political volatility, leaking tents and dusty trucks are sometimes part of the dynamic and also part of the adventure! But thats travelling so try to enjoy it!

[Plutarch]

Well yeah, some people will love the experience while others won't.

But if rujo's claims are true (and remember s/he's only talking about that particular tour) then it's more than just a case of not adjusting to the challenges of overlanding in Africa. Digging trucks out of mud and so on is inevitable, and missing the departure due to unspecified 'miscommunications' we can't really evaluate. I suspend judgment (and raise a skeptical eyebrow) when the facts of a complaint aren't communicated in full.

But some of the claims sound more substantial, and they seem to involve unethical behaviour. Of course, all we have to go on is hearsay, but I'd be interested to see what ATC have to say about it.

Without passing judgment either way, it's sad that rujo and the crew on that trip had a poor experience. But hopefully the rest of us will continue to have good old times on overland trips. I'm doing one in Mozambique in March, but with Nomad.

[rujo]

The previous poster but one confuses legitimate mishaps that are all part of the adventure with the sort of experiences we had which were avoidable and were actually brought about by ATC. In the national park we went to there were only 8 permits available per day. However there is another park in uganda and one in rwanda where we could all have had permits in the same day. Instead we were being taken to DRC when even we (with, one would have thought, much less experience of this kind of thing than ATC) could see it was dangerous and unlikely. Although we asked, we were not told why this decision was taken. There are three options to my mind: total ignorance and incompetence; madness; or money.

One of the most maddening things on the trip was how the guide used to constantly say after or in the middle of every ATC cock-up: “this is Africa”. The company/its employees showed themselves to be incompetent, unethical and dishonest and it was very useful for the to be able to blame hopeless chaotic Africa. As they had teed this excuse up nicely for themselves in the brochure, it is something many people fell for: “this is the Africa Travel Co” was more accurate.

I tried to keep my previous post short but if you want chapter and verse on the complaint about the truck leaving without us here it is.

We booked with Go2Africa who offered (we did not ask for it) the option of meeting the truck on the zambian side of Vic Falls (livingstone) instead of on the Zim side (where we had already been some years back). We opted for the Zambian side and were told that we would need to call the office in Vic Falls on arrival and tell them that we had arrived and confirm time of pick up at the Zim/Zam border on the morning of 1 Jan . I did call on arrival the day before and the woman I spoke to told us to wait at the border from noon as the truck would not now be going through until the afternoon. I was a little concerned that the truck might go without us so I asked her if she was sure about this and also I gave her my mobile phone number so that I could be called if there was a change of plan. I took a note of her name. On 1 Jan we waited at the border for 4 hours. We called the office but it was closed and there was no out of hours number provided on the answer machine. We got no call on our mobile phone. Had it not been for the fact that they had several thousand dollars of our money we would have ditched the company and the truck there and then. At around 3pm we spotted a truck (different company) going in the opposite direction and flagged them down. By pure chance they had met the ATC tour leader in the shopping centre in Livingstone and she had mentioned that she was 2 people short as they had not turned up. As we were not sure that this was our truck (we did not know the name of the company) one of us stayed at the border and the other chased down the truck in a taxi. I eventually found the truck in a campsite in livingstone a stone’s throw from where we had stayed the night before! When I eventually caught up with the guide she said that she had heard nothing about us meeting the truck at the border but had expected us in Vic Falls (Zim side). She offered no further explanation and no apology but said she would speak to her boss (this was what she always said to get out of a tight situation but it never led anywhere). When we left the tour 33 days later we had still been given no explanation or apology.

We then spent what was for most of us a 3rd night at vic falls and then spent the next 2 days driving through central zambia to the malawian border. The itinerary had promised Lake Kariba and the ‘option’ of taking a 2 day houseboat trip on the lake. We were told that “the houseboat” (is there only one?!!) had to go in for a service so the trip to Kariba was cancelled. Others on the truck had been told that the trip was cancelled because there were too few of us on the truck to justify it. The itinerary envisages that those who do not opt for the houseboats can do activities at the lake. We were not given this option and left Africa without seeing Lake Kariba and without explanation.

I have only included brief outlines of the worst of the trip there are many many many other examples I could cite in support of why I would not recommend this trip.

[Plutarch]

Alrightythen. No quibbles, rujo.... and well done for giving the full story. That also helps to isolate the point of breakdown in communication: either the guide forgot about you, or the person you spoke to on the phone never told her to expect you at the border. Or something else I've overlooked...

I guess we should wait and see what responses are forthcoming.

[kristys]

I did a couple of different Africa trips with Imaginative Traveller and Geckos. Both companies were fantastic, and I would in particular recommend Geckos for the gorilla trip as they use the same guide for each trip and he is an absolute star. They also ensure that they have the gorilla permit before leaving so you won't have any issues with either unethical and illegal viewing or being disappointed by not having a permit. Have fun and be flexible - Africa is unpredictable! E.g. we had difficulty reentering the border from rwanda into uganda simply due to dodgey immigration people who wanted bribes etc.

[Blonde Nomad]

Having been on Rujo's apparently ill fated adventure I hope I can add some perspective. I will ignore points 1-2 as I joined the group in Nairobi travelling south after the Gorrillas to Zanzibar

3) Yes the tents had the unfortunate habit of leaking however I only experienced 1 such night with no major after effects in the entire month.

4) The ‘tour leader’ made it clear she was not a guide and I would have expected more from you than lowering yourself to personal digs. We all enjoyed a drink or two and I can not agree with your opinion here. In reference to the music it was clear the trip was based on majority votes if you didn't like it speak up or use your own iPod- that's what I did.

5) There were NO food shortages nor was there rationing. If you wanted more food you only had to ask and there was only ONE incident were they ran out of cheese at lunch and even then there were other things available to make a sandwhich with. For god sake you were getting three meals a day including a hot breakfast most days when the locals may not be lucky enough to have a single meal. It might not have been what you were used to in London but it was healthy, yes some people were asked to restrain themselves from having seconds until everyone had been served, but I don't recall any instances where there was not enough to go around- unless you are being so petty as to refer to the CHEESE incident.

6) We were NOT told that we would see the gorillas in the DRC, it was not decreed by ATC, the group voted in Nakuru and it was a unanimous decision. The DRC was recommended as the entire group could trek in one day rather than spread it out. Agreed the communication regarding changes to requirements could have been better however this came via the agent not ATC.

7) Again the ATC leader DIDN'T offer us the option of seeing the gorillas in Uganda without a permit - the booking agent George did. Infact, I recall you were present when the trip leader expressed her complete disappointment with George and how inappropriate this offer was. Given the trip is run on majority vote she had to refer the offer to us - who knows there may have been some people stupid enough to jump at it? It is an utter fabrication to state that ATC encouraged us to accept this offer. I dispute this entirely

8) The truck getting bogged was one of my highlights! Sorry to say the reaminder of us didn't sit back at camp miserable we arranged other things such as visiting the local Masai village, the majority of us were very happy as we had the Serengeti and Ngorogoro yet to come on our itinery.

9) Having overheard some of your dispute with the trip leader I hate to tell you your comment "this is nothing personal" is obviously incorrect!

The arrangement you made was with the driver who was not able to commit himself privately as he is employed by the camp site. The ATC leader could not have threatened the camp manager with the sack she does not have the authority to do any such thing she was not his employer. ATC would not obstruct you from leaving or making alternate arrangements it was of your own volition. I also dispute there were "serious rumblings of discontentment" ok so you and two others left the remainder of the group were happy- please do not speak for me.

ATC did NOT fail!

Maybe you needed to research better and understand exactly what you were setting yourself up for, maybe your expectations were out of sinc with the itinery? If you wanted first world experiences in a thrid world country on a budget you should have looked elsewhere. ATC is a budget overland tour operator, it is a particpation holiday, expect to get dirty, expect to travel long distances, expect a little discomfort it makes the whole thing more REAL.

There was no irresponsible tourism, ATC supports the locals if they didn't hey would not have survived this long. Having travelled fairly widely with many companies such as Geckos, Imaginative, Intrepid and now ATC I can safely say they are all fairly similar. Most disputes are about accomdation and food, however I think you are one for the record books, I think you might be better off travelling solo next time.

[rujo]

3) i was on the trip for 21 days before you joined and what i say about the tents and my experience is fact

4) again this impression came from the first 21 days of the trip when there were just 5 of us on the truck

5) the cheese incident was the one time at almost the end of the trip when someone actually asked for more – it was clear on every other day that there was insufficient food to go around

6) I agree there was a vote but it was not based on reliable information as I have said

7) I completely disagree here. The ATC leader most certainly did offer us this option. As for your claim that it is “an utter fabrication to state that ATC encouraged us to accept this offer”, if you reread my post you will see that I did not say that ATC encouraged us to accept this offer. It was offered to us. That in my view is enough – George’s suggestion would never have been seriously offered by a responsible company. I certainly was not present for any expression of disappointment with George for making this offer or for any acceptance of how inappropriate it was as you suggest. If this was said by the tour leader (and as I say I did not hear it) it was said well after we had made it clear how appalled we were and therefore does not in my view count.

Fine but I spoke to at least 4 people who had sat in the camp all day and who expressed themselves to be upset, angry and disappointed.

9) Again, I don’t know where your “this is nothing personal” comes from - I haven’t said that in my post as far as I can see and don’t understand your point.

Everything you say in your next paragraph is completely incorrect. You were not involved in this issue and know nothing of it. ATC did have the power to sack this man by one telephone call from the ATC boss to the acacia camp boss. You know nothing of what our private driver could and could not do. You did not overhear the tour leader tell these people to lie! You were not present the next day after everyone left. All in all I do not think you are qualified to comment on this issue at all.

[Graeme Thomson]

To all,

My name is Graeme Thomson; I am the Founder & Managing Director of the Africa Travel Co.

I would like to thank those of you that have come forward and had your say, with both positive and adverse comment.

To Ruth & Gavin Ayliffe,

Firstly let me say that I am sorry that you obviously haven’t enjoyed your trip with us in Africa.

It is my understanding that you started your trip in Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe and were booked to do a 35 day trip northbound via Nairobi that included the last 2 weeks traveling through Kenya and Uganda. Part of this trip included the option of trekking the gorillas.

I have been involved with organizing & coordinating trips within Africa for over 25 years and have never had a complaint mentioning that we are unethical, dishonest and incompetent in all those years. Yes from time to time we do get some complaints, but they are very few. Many are from clients whose expectations far exceed what is achievable on this continent.
We have carried over 6,000 thousand clients to see the gorillas in the past 13 years and in only one instance in 1994 did we not succeed in giving our clients the option to view the gorillas.
We have grown from one solitary vehicle to operating 45 overland trucks in East & Southern Africa.

We have established ourselves as one of the few overland companies that have representative offices and workshops in the major joining points in Africa.
We have carried well over 30,000 clients in the past 13 years under our own banner and through many very reputable companies that either brochure our product or charter our vehicles and crew and run their own programs.
You don’t achieve that by being “unethical, dishonest or incompetent”.

Now……down to the issues that you have raised.

In relation to the start of your trip, we as a company were not aware that you were joining the trip at the border point in Zambia. This would appear to be a miscommunication between your agent and ourselves.
For that I apologize.

Leaking tents - Yes you are quite right, some of the tents did leak. The tents we buy are made in South Africa and although they are of very good quality, they are simply not sufficient in the type of torrential down pour we have been experiencing in East Africa lately. We are currently in the process of manufacturing a more effective fly sheet that will cover the whole tent area in the hope of overcoming this problem. However, the process of manufacturing these fly sheets in Kenya does take time & it is not possible to equip every vehicle immediately – it is going to take time.

In saying that, all tents will leak when the rains are excessive, but we are aware of the problem and we are actively seeking a solution.

Food rationing - In all the years we have been operating these trips, we have had very little complaint in regard to the quantity & quality of the food provided.
I honestly believe that we have some of the best safari cooks on the road who are capable of preparing good meals in the most difficult circumstances. The trip reports from your fellow travelers indicate that there was no shortage of food & in fact compliment the chef on his meals. Mention is made on this forum by a fellow traveler from your trip that there was not sufficient cheese for lunch on one occasion – hardly equates to food rationing when there was plenty of other food available?


The Trip Leader, Liz Bell is a very competent and resourceful young lady. To say that she knew nothing about Africa and had no interest in it contradicts the feedback received from 19 of your fellow travelers. Liz has been leading trips for us for sometime and her reports are normally very good. Sometimes client’s expectations of what the trip and the Trip Leader is about can get in the way of them actually enjoying the experience of Africa. I am not going to comment personally on the issue of any personality clashes between you, Liz and the rest of the group. From experience, unrealistic expectations of the trip leader or fellow passengers, or even Africa as a destination, will almost certainly lead to disappointment.


On the last 14 days of the 35 day trip that you were on this section covers some of the area known as East Africa. The trip incorporated both Kenya and Uganda with an option to see the gorillas in, either the DRC, Rwanda or Uganda. Due to the unusual weather conditions we have encountered here in East Africa over the past 2 to 3 months it was necessary to operate the trip in a reverse direction trusting that the weather and conditions would get better and allow us to visit the Masai Mara on the return from Uganda.

As per our brochure and itinerary:

From our base in Kisoro, depending on where permits are available, we trek in either The Magahinga or Bwindi National Parks in Uganda, The Virunga National Park in the DRC or at Rhuengeri National park in Rwanda.

You and your fellow passengers decided, by group vote, to trek in DRC despite Liz’s advice that this may not be possible due to reports of unrest in the region. Your group decision was based on the fact that permit prices in DRC were at that time, cheaper than in neighboring Uganda or Rwanda. Once it was established that DRC was definitely not a possibility our local agent was instructed to reserve permits in Bwindi National Park – the only permits available. The result being, that your group would have to stay in Kisoro and for go Lake Bunyoni. Lake Bunyoni is in our itinerary for that exact reason, to allow for extended trekking time should conditions dictate. The local agent, in a conversation with Liz, did suggest that it was a possibility for the remaining 8 pax to trek a day earlier under the pretence of visiting the pygmy village……. It is unfortunate that the local agent we were using considered this to be an option but in no way does this reflect on the Africa Travel Co and we do not condone this practice.

We have not taken so many clients to the gorillas by operating under dubious practices, or by obtaining permits by illegal means. We have now appointed another agent who we trust will be more ethical.

In closing I am disappointed that you haven’t contacted me directly.

No one likes to be criticized but if you felt that you didn’t get what was expected you do have the right to speak with me directly. I am the Founder & Managing Director and I am based in Nairobi, Kenya. Our East African Operations Manager is always there to greet the trucks when they arrive into Nairobi on a Saturday and he and I are ALWAYS at the departures the following day when the trips leave.
After the 21 day trip from Vic Falls to Nairobi you would have arrived into Nairobi on the Saturday the 20th of January 2007 and left again for the remaining 14 days on the Sunday the 21st of January 2007.
Both Brett and I were at the departure on the 21st of January 2007. We were also at the departure on the 4th of February when the remaining clients who were continuing on down south departed. Our Group General Manager, Leanne Guild led the southbound section from Nairobi with some of your fellow travel companions & had plenty of opportunity to discuss the issues raised with them.

I am the first to admit that this trip was challenging due to adverse weather conditions & various other factors beyond the control of our crew or company. However, judging from the trip feedback forms and Leanne’s discussions with your fellow travel companions, it would appear that unrealistic expectations is the major contributing factor for your lack of enjoyment.

If you were so unhappy why didn’t you come and introduce yourself and discuss the issues with us personally?

Once again I am disappointed that you didn’t enjoy your trip, if you would like to contact me directly you can do so on wataus@space.net.au

Kind regards,

Graeme Thomson
Founder and Managing Director
Africa Travel Co Ltd

[rujo]

Dear Graeme

I have not as yet contacted you directly due to work pressures and the fact that I am preparing a more formal letter of claim than the more informal feedback included on this forum.

Also, due to pressures of time I am not replying fully now to the points raised by you in your post - all of which I take issue with in one way or another - but will do so on Friday. I am however responding immediately now to ask you to address the proverbial 'elephant in the room' that you have avoided mentioning in your post - the threats made to our driver (Daniel) and Mike Henry the camp manager.

Ruth

[Graeme Thomson]

Ruth,

I am not going to continually enter into arguements with you, suffice to say that i have spoken at length to the Manager of our camp in the Masai Mara, Mike and he catorgoricaly refutes that statement made by you that he was threatenned by Liz the Trip Leader with being dismissed.
I also find it amazing that you say that due to work pressures you havent had the time to contact me directly, but i see that you have had an amazing amount of time on your hands to post your comments on most public forums..............

Graeme Thomson

[depor]

Graeme,

I was on this trip too. Because I was too busy on my way back I did not have time yet to give feed-back on this trip, to Go2africa, but also ATC.
What I wanted to say now shortly by reading your last post, it is true liz threatenned both Daniel and Mike. When I was bringing my bag to reception, I could not help hearing the conversation in the room next to me between these 3 people. Liz was definetely threatening and asking the two men to tell certain things (lie) to the people who had made an arrangement with daniel.
I will give my comments soon about the other issues.

[/quote]

[Neil Cruickshank]

Sounds all very similar to our trip....

We have just returned (Jan 07) from using the Africa Travel Company (ATC) on an overland truck trip in Kenya, Uganda & Rwanda. It was the worst trip we've ever been on. There were very long hours (19hrs some days) of traveling on extremely poor roads, the food was something much to be desired of and the ATC tour guide couldn't organize herself let alone 25 people in Africa, shocking!

We would have put 5 days out of the 14 as being worth it - the rest were largely spent driving - we spent 19 hours traveling the one day before finally making camp. 4am was the everyday wake up, in the dark you would use the cold water to freshen up, break tents and be at breakfast for 5am, pack the truck and 6am sharp the truck would leave...in the dark. Most days we would arrive at camp anything from 5pm to midnight, pitch tents, start fire, cook, wash up (duties shared by travelers not the cook!) then have a shower if you had the energy, this time could be 2am if you only arrived at midnight. Then 4am you'd start it all over again for the next day....you laugh...seriously! Forget sitting outside your tent, sipping a cold beer watching the sunset! Forget toilet seats & hot water for 2 weeks!

We appreciate that while in Africa you are on African time, we do not however accept that a tour leader can be so incompetent! On a day trip outing she put us in a vehicle with an unknown driver that could not speak English and had no value for human life frequently taking blind corners with oncoming traffic. It was very distressing and all the tour leader could say was "IT'S AFRICA?" It always seemed like there was never enough money... the so called leader didn’t even have credit on her mobile phone! We eventually took to organizing most things ourselves.

We believe what was likely happening is that the crew made money by pocketing our kitty money for food, we supplemented our rations (dry bread) by eating junk food most of the time. We cannot believe the tour company would think for a moment they could feed us largely white bread and that we would not complain.

We questioned participants on 2 other African travel tours who were staying in the same campground - one of them told us they got eggs for breakfast most mornings, the other told me they generally got only white toast (as did we) That's what makes us think the spending on meals was discretionary and that staff were likely pocketing the difference.

Next time around we would simply fly in and then head to any lodges by private 4x4 range rover. On a positive note, the driver on the truck, and the camp cook were both excellent!

Overall, this has been our worst tour experience and to fellow travelers I would certainly warn them to steer clear of ATC and maybe think again if considering an overland truck tour of East Africa!

Good luck if you're heading to East Africa on a truck tour with ATC, you're going to need it!

[Neil Cruickshank]

For more info on this topic have a look at these 2 links. Graeme may I suggest you have a look at these and then have a look at your companies day to day operations on the ground and how your tour staff treat your clients.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293740-i9186-k876444-l6241176-South_Africa.html#6241176

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293747-i9226-k822262-l6241257-Tanzania.html#6241257


Let me just ad a few more one liners of incidents that occurred:

Total sleep in 15days: 74.5hrs avg 5hrs/night
Total driving hours: 108hrs in just 2 weeks

The truck was at one stage so full that someone had to sit on a cooler box in the front cab with the driver & cook with no seat belt and on those roads…

There was continuous arguing between people in the group and the 25 - 30 odd people separated into little “gangs” (encouraged by the tour guide) all bitching behind each others backs, not nice....

The were always arguments between the tour guide and the clients (us) due to her not informing us altogether the same TRUE story. She broke down in tears many times saying she just couldn’t take it all after we simply asked questions regarding our next itinerary.

She split the group up numerous times, a rather dangerous decision especially in the middle of Africa let alone at the boarder to Rwanda!

Lots of night driving, on very bad roads with Christmas & New Year celebrations in Africa this meant drunk pedestrians & drivers etc on the roads and in the dark it’s very difficult to avoid a stray cow in the middle of a dirt road in the bush. If you read the Lonely Planet, the first things they tell you is “Do NOT drive in Africa at night” and ATC calls themselves experienced in Africa!

Our poor driver had to try keep himself awake with the lives of 25-30 in his hands. We did days of driving for 14hrs, 17hrs, 15hrs, 13hrs, 12hrs etc (I have kept a diary which will shock you!) most of these with no lunch stop, all done by 1 driver, how he didn’t fall asleep at the wheel, who knows?

ATC failed to book Gorilla permits in advance, so many lies regarding the permits no-one knew which story to believe as it changed every 2hrs.

We were put in a local mini bus without our tour guide (she slept in) the day before New Years eve, with a driver who couldn’t speak English to visit the capital of Rwanda. Put it this way, we’re lucky to still be here.

We were instructed to walk the streets of our Rwandan town in the dark at night to and from a restaurant we were served a “buffet”: rice, samp beans, veg & chips) At least we didn’t have to wash our plates and fan dry them! (no dish towels provided)

Rules, rules rules…just like a Boot Camp! Most were grown adults and professionals (well for the exception of the tour guide!) Avg age 25 - 35

Well I could go on for days, but I have better things to do with my time and I think you’al get the picture!

Good luck.

[rujo]

Dear Graeme,

I can well understand why you do not want to carry on rehearsing these issues in public but I think the subscribers to this forum have a right to hear my responses to your reply.

I will deal with each of the issues I have raised and your responses to them in turn.

1. The failure to pick us up at our departure point – You say “we as a company were not aware that you were joining the trip at the border point in Zambia. This would appear to be a miscommunication between your agent and ourselves.” As I have stated on this website, I spoke to Esther in the ATC office and it was on her instruction that we waited at the border post. When I finally tracked Lizzie down she said that Esther had not told her anything about the arrangement but that she would take the matter up with ATC management.. Plainly, you “as a company” are responsible for your employee’s failure to communicate the arrangement to the ATC Tour Leader. About 10 days ago, upon return from Africa I made a formal complaint to the agent we booked with (Go2Africa) in relation to this and all the other issues mentioned. As I understand it, they are following the complaint up with you. I am surpised that you appear to be blaming Go2Africa for the miscommunication when it is obvious that it was a failure of communication amongst ATC employees. As stated above, I received no explanation for why we were left at the border post while the truck left without us. Graeme, I am still waiting for this explanation. Also, was part of a wider pattern as at least 3 other travellers who had separately arranged pickups with ATC (not through an agent) did not get them and had to figure out their own way to get to the truck (e.g. a lone woman traveller left after dark in Dar-es-Salaam airport and having to take a ride with a baggage-handler’s brother).

2. Lake Kariba cancelled. You have completely ignored this complaint. Please can you tell me which of the two explanations we were given is the true one ( i)houseboat in for repair or ii) not enough customers to justify the trip) and explain why a false explanation was given? Neither explanation is a proper justification in my view and I would be interested (as I am sure would others) in your response to this point. If neither is true please provide the real explanation and explain why we were given an untrue explanation. I accept that ATC has a contractual right to cancel any item on the itinerary when it is reasonable for it to do so. Customers are entitled to an explanation (not two conflicting ones) and the explanation must disclose a good reason for cancelling the trip. Finally, why have you ignored this serious complaint?

3. Leaking tents - I am glad you accept that the tents were leaking. I should add that ‘all’ not ‘some’ of the tents leaked. Between us and our co-travellers we tried out all of them in Zambia in the vain search for one that did not. Lizzie (who said she had spoken to her boss following our complaint about the tents) assured us we would have new tents in Nairobi. The tents we picked up in Nairobi were worse (although the rains we experienced after Nairobi were not). We showed willing in Nakuru (the first night after Nairobi) by trying out the new tents we had campaigned for, however others in the group who had been on board with the bad tents since Dar-Es-Salaam took down their tents in Nakuru in disgust and paid for upgrades. Since you appear to accept that there was a problem, can you please explain why this problem was not dealt with or at the very least explained to us in Nairobi? ATC is described in posts dating back some time as providing leaking tents. Why are you only now doing something about it?

4. Food rationing – you have missed the point. I have nothing but praise for the two chefs we had on this trip. They cooked beautiful meals in difficult circumstances. This was not my complaint. There was rationing. Your Tour Leader stood by at lunch time while some of the customers laid down rules (much to some people’s consternation) that people could only take one sandwich until everyone had had one so that there would be enough food to go around. I dealt with the point made by Blond Nomad as to the cheese incident (see above) – this was not an isolated incident. Neil Cruickshank who was on a different trip echoes this complaint in his post above. In my view you cannot therefore dismiss it.

5. Tour leader – Almost everyone on the trip was a professional in the 25 to 35+ age group. We were all there to see and experience Africa and have a good time. Our confidence in the company was undermined on day one when our tour leader proudly treated us to tales of how she was dubbed ‘Shagging Shirley’ on a previous trip and stories of how another ATC tour leader got good reviews by doing a line of cocaine every 15 minutes. We obviously took the latter comment with a pinch of salt but the demeanour of the tour leader struck us as inappropriate and made us and others uncomfortable. We were not looking for, neither did we need, David Attenborough to guide us through Africa, but someone with an interest in Africa to match that of those on the trip was legitimately expected especially given the representations made in ATC’s brochure. The leader by her actions created divisions in the group; in particular, in herself deciding who would go in which of the two 4x4s on the Serengeti trip and referring to the 4x4 that contained her and her chosen few as ‘The Fun Truck’. Our expections of the trip, the leader and Africa were realistic. We were not disappointed by Africa or by our co-travellers (we made some great friends) but were let down by the leader and ATC. My husband has travelled widely in Africa and did an overland trip in Namibia and Botswana with Chameleon in 1999 which he thoroughly enjoyed so we knew what it was reasonable to expect. We were sorely disappointed.

6. The DRC and the gorrillas – You say: “You and your fellow passengers decided, by group vote, to trek in DRC despite Lizs advice that this may not be possible due to reports of unrest in the region. Your group decision was based on the fact that permit prices in DRC were at that time, cheaper than in neighboring Uganda or Rwanda.” I have already set out in detail why I say that this vote was rigged in that we were given false information (another guide confirmed that Rwanda trekking cost 390 not 550 dollars and that sufficient permits could be procured on 48 hours notice; we were given a contact number which we offered to Lizzie; she refused). What is your response to this? It was clear that the DRC was always ATC’s choice despite being by far the most volatile of the three countries. I am still awaiting an explanation as to why that was (Lizzie was unable to provide one).

7. Illegal gorilla tracking – You say: “the local agent, in a conversation with Liz, did suggest that it was a possibility for the remaining 8 pax to trek a day earlier under the pretence of visiting the pygmy village. It is unfortunate that the local agent we were using considered this to be an option but in no way does this reflect on the Africa Travel Co and we do not condone this practice.” Again you have missed the point and ignored my complaint: Lizzie communicated to us the option of tracking the gorillas a day early by lying to the rangers and paying our 400 dollars in kickbacks. I think I made this clear in my original post and in my response to Blond Nomad but I will repeat it: ATC (through Lizzie) presented us with this option. I did not see or meet the ATC local agent George until the following day. You have accepted that the suggestion was unethical and dubious. Do you admit that Lizzie passed this suggestion on to your customers (there were 8 witnesses)? If so, you must accept the charge that ATC condoned illegal practices. The simple fact is that had we accepted the offer Lizzie gave to us (and she made it clear that it was open for us to do so), we would have illegally tracked the gorillas placing ourselves and them in great danger.

8. Masai mara – My detailed account of how we were taken to the masai mara in the truck when it should have been obvious (it was to us when we made arrangements for a 4x4) that it would get stuck given the rains and the closure of the national park wasn’t dealt with by you in your response. I have reported how we were put in a dangerous position getting stranded in the mud in the middle of the masai mara at night. We discovered the following day when speaking to a bemused ranger that Lizzie had been offered a tractor to accompany the truck and tow it out of the mud if necessary (given the likelihood of getting stuck) but that she had refused it. You may be interested to see the comments of two Canadians who did the trip with ATC a short time before we did at www.iancyeung.blogspot.com and at www.jennitee.com/blog. They report being lied to by ATC when they were told the Masai Mara was closed to all trucks; they describe ATC as being “all about making money” and also report a “terrible experience” in the Serengeti. They appear to have done a fairly comprehensive world trip and Africa Travel Co. appears as one of their lowlights and is described as the most expensive and most disappointing part of their trip. A poster on the tripadvisor website (Neil Cruickshank provided the link in his post above) described ATC as “disorganised”, “money hungry” and that it “exposed clients to unnecessary dangers all for the sake of saving a buck”. The integrity of the company is also called into question there. This all appears to rather go against what you say in your opening paragraph about ATC never having had challenges to its integrity etc. It is clear that our complaints are not isolated but appear to be part of a pattern of bad experiences on different ATC tours

9. Masai mara, bullying of locals - Interestingly, this is another matter that you have chosen to ignore in your first post. ‘Depor’ backs up what I have said about Lizzie threatening Mike and Daniel. Depor overheard it take place. Do you wish to reconsider your assertion made in your second post?

As to your complaint that I did not make a direct complaint to ATC, I made a formal direct complaint in these exact terms to Go2Africa on my return. They are your agent and the company I booked with. They have told me they are following the complaint up with you. I therefore don’t see that you have any cause for complaint. You will be receiving my formal letter of complaint in due course and once I have had a response from Go2Africa.

I do not think I have to justify not approaching you in Nairobi. In any event, we did not wish to mar our trip further by having this out in the middle of our holiday. Having read the responses you have given now I do not see how approaching you then would have made any difference.

Subject to whatever response you might have to these 9 points I maintain my opinion that ATC displayed itself to be incompetent, dishonest and unethical on this trip.

[katy4985]

Hi
Over the summer I went on a 14 day gorilla and game safrai booked through african budget safari with ATC.

It was a poor excuse for a trip and I thoroughly recommend that no one else going with this company as we had to leave half way through the tour.

For the first 5 days we spent 50 + hours on the truck leaving our destinations before dawn and arriving after dusk unable to experience any of the places that we were told we would be 'visiting'. The truck was very slow, taking twice as long as public the transport, the windows were broken and jammed shut with newspaper, seats were broken so customers had to spend the day sitting on the cool box and suspension was terrible, terrible.

After leaving we were accussed of theft and reported to the police after we denied multiple times that we didnt steal 2 grand off another customer, this understandably caused us A LOT of distress as we were worried we may not be able to cross the border and miss our flight. afterwards we were told that they found the money on the truck but we never got an apology.

The tour guide was very poor, he gave us no information and we found him rude and unhelpful, he never told us our itinery and didnt not organise the gorilla treks until 9pm the evening before some people were due to trek out at 5 am the next day. the gorillas were amazing but not worthwhile this poor trip.

On the plus side the cook was very good and very friendly.

We had been overlanding before and knew what to expect but this was ridiuclous, every minute was torture-no exaggeration and please please stay away from this company