 |
|
| Author |
Message |
oblivion
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 945
Location: Londonistan
|
 Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| ticcan wrote: | | I find the labels pretty pointless anyway. Makes more sense to take things issue by issue than shouting accusations at eachother about which wing your point of view is from. |
Good to see you're taking the moral highground about avoiding lazy generalizations and labelling people.... moments after bemoaning the "Ignorant redneck spirit" of Australians. 
| ticcan wrote: |
As i said, illegal immigrants are here, we dont know how many, but you can be sure they are paying no tax. So we can either carry on as we are with them paying no tax, or we can give them an amnesty so we know how many there are and get them actually paying some tax, cos they aint leaving either way. |
Sorry Ticcan, but that's the same garbage used by the Spanish back in the 1980's i.e "We should grant amnesty to illegals and allow them to get jobs and pay taxes". Sounds great on paper, but in reality it's been an utter disaster. 20 years later, and Spain has been forced to grant another seven amnesties to cope with the millions more immigrants who innevitably headed their way after hearing of the first. Hundreds (or possibly thousands?) of Africans are now dying each year as they attempt to reach Spanish shores by crossing deserts on foot and the mediteranean in unseaworthy fishing boats.
That original "one off" amnesty has created an immigration disaster of epic proportions.
And then there's the amnesty in America, during the Reagan administration. Surprise, surprise, they claimed it was a "one off" and once again used the taxes argument. 20 years and 20 million illegal immigrants later, and 3,000 Mexicans are now crossing the border each day. Gun crime is spiralling, gangs and drugs are rife in the South, the health services are sinking under demand from un-insured illegals, schools are having to cope with majority non-English speaking classes etc etc etc you get the point.
Those of us who have been following these social experiments as they unravel, will not easily be suckered into supporting the same thing being applied in the UK, based on the bogus "taxes" argument. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Orwellian_Logic
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 5136
Location: Londonistan
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oblivion wrote: | | ticcan wrote: | There is no way Boris can be described as extreme left wing lol
Illegal immigrants are here, paying no tax. If they are here would you rather they paid tax or didnt? |
That's the whole point - in an economic sense, the term "Left wing" no longer has any meaning. It's an anachronism. The free market has established total dominance as the consensus ideology in every major political party.
And so in 2008, when we refer to the terms "left wing" or "right wing" we are no longer referring to the now-redundant economic clashes of, for example, the 1980's. We are referring to social and cultural policy more than anything else.
Q: If you hear someone being described as "right wing" - what's the first thing you think of - their economic or their social crudentials?
Therefore, when I claim that Boris is far left, I do so with justification. Why? Because on the single most important issue that London has ever faced - historic, unprecedented levels of immigration that affects every issue from housing, to schools, to crime, overcrowding, poverty, civil cohesion, strained services, congestion etc etc etc Boris is an open borders b*tch who wants to follow the catastrophic examples Los Angeles and Spain with amnesty.
That's far left in any reasonable person's book. |
This in itself shows Boris' true political affiliation Oblivion. He wants an amnesty for illegal immigrants to stay in the country. Then again why shouldn't he? He is after all of immigrant stock himself.
Boris may sound like a Toff and may be Old Etonion and an Oxford Scholar but British? Hmm.....don't think so.
He's a better figure of a man than Ken ever was or will be and better Boris than Ken, but your point above is very true and shows where his thoughts lie.
Our main three parties are left wing or should I say more Liberal Left Wing. There are no conservatives any more and in fact the original Labour died out when the cold war ended, allowing the communists into their midsts to form the Socialists that started to destroy it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ticcan
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 5602
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Good to see you're taking the moral highground about avoiding lazy generalizations and labelling people.... moments after bemoaning the "Ignorant redneck spirit" of Australians |
Right and left winged i was referring to
Spain has less muslim immigrants than almost any other western country.
Whats the other option? Carrying on complaining about them while having no idea how many there are and who they are, but knowing the contribute little to society? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oblivion
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 945
Location: Londonistan
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ticcan wrote: | | Quote: | | Good to see you're taking the moral highground about avoiding lazy generalizations and labelling people.... moments after bemoaning the "Ignorant redneck spirit" of Australians |
Right and left winged i was referring to
Spain has less muslim immigrants than almost any other western country.
Whats the other option? Carrying on complaining about them while having no idea how many there are and who they are, but knowing the contribute little to society? |
*Triple the staff numbers at the borders patrols agency.
* Remove illegal immigrants and bogus asylum seekers within 72 hours of their detainment. Only one court appeal allowed - after that it's the airport.
*Ensure that every job - including self-empoyed - requires proof of eligibility to work in the UK.
*Prosecute every single company that is found exploiting illegal immigrant labour and fine them heavily. After a second offence, terminate their company license.
*Send immigration officers to randomly inspect companies - particularly in agriculture - to check for immigration status of workers, acceptible working conditions, proof of minimum wage being paid, proof of decent accomodation.
*Start hitting the big businesses who have for so long been cashing in on the immigration bonanza. Once those dominos start to fall, the rest will follow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Orwellian_Logic
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 5136
Location: Londonistan
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oblivion wrote: | | ticcan wrote: | | Quote: | | Good to see you're taking the moral highground about avoiding lazy generalizations and labelling people.... moments after bemoaning the "Ignorant redneck spirit" of Australians |
Right and left winged i was referring to
Spain has less muslim immigrants than almost any other western country.
Whats the other option? Carrying on complaining about them while having no idea how many there are and who they are, but knowing the contribute little to society? |
*Triple the staff numbers at the borders patrols agency.
* Remove illegal immigrants and bogus asylum seekers within 72 hours of their detainment. Only one court appeal allowed - after that it's the airport.
*Ensure that every job - including self-empoyed - requires proof of eligibility to work in the UK.
*Prosecute every single company that is found exploiting illegal immigrant labour and fine them heavily. After a second offence, terminate their company license.
*Send immigration officers to randomly inspect companies - particularly in agriculture - to check for immigration status of workers, acceptible working conditions, proof of minimum wage being paid, proof of decent accomodation.
*Start hitting the big businesses who have for so long been cashing in on the immigration bonanza. Once those dominos start to fall, the rest will follow. |
So you've been reading my manifesto lately?
Have a look at the Immigration Whistleblower's book 'The Great Immigration Scandal' by Steve Moxon.
I just found it on Google Books :
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=438XvrYW9D8C&dq=the+great+immigration+scandal&pg=PP1&ots=fVxntg4Jxs&sig=tHLXhJiKNB59f4FhBpitBPPnwaI&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.co.uk/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dthe%2BGreat%2BImmigration%2Bscandal&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail#PPP1,M1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laugh Out Loud
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 588
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Orwellian_Logic wrote: | So you've been reading my manifesto lately?
|
Seriously.. I mean c'mon..
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ticcan
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 5602
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | * Remove illegal immigrants and bogus asylum seekers within 72 hours of their detainment. Only one court appeal allowed - after that it's the airport. |
Ones caught are usually deported immediately and not let out the airport. The vast vast majority come in other ways or overstay visa's and so removing them is nigh on impossible as no one knows who they are.
| Quote: | | *Ensure that every job - including self-empoyed - requires proof of eligibility to work in the UK. |
It does, just employers dont care.
| Quote: | | *Prosecute every single company that is found exploiting illegal immigrant labour and fine them heavily. After a second offence, terminate their company license. |
Could work but would cost billions in legal costs if as most ppl think there are hundreds of thousands, most dont work for big companies, and policiing would cost a fortune.
| Quote: | | *Send immigration officers to randomly inspect companies - particularly in agriculture - to check for immigration status of workers, acceptible working conditions, proof of minimum wage being paid, proof of decent accomodation. |
Also would cost an absolute fortune, and in reality given the amount of businesses logistically impossible.
In the USA esp California it is thought that the agriculture economy would collapse if you removed all their illegal immigrant workers, costs go up, ppl are not happy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oblivion
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 945
Location: Londonistan
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ticcan wrote: |
In the USA esp California it is thought that the agriculture economy would collapse if you removed all their illegal immigrant workers, costs go up, ppl are not happy. |
Alternatively, rich US farm owners - who are some of the wealthiest people in America (now cashing-in on ethanol and record food prices) could actually pay American farm workers a decent wage, rather than importing indentured labour from Mexico?
No - they'd never dream of such a thing. Instead, they'll make threats about the agricultual economy "collapsing" and use powerful lobbyists to pressure federal governments into turning a blind eye to illegal immigration - all in the name of protecting their profit margins - er, I mean the "wider economy" nudge, nudge. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ticcan
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 5602
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oblivion wrote: | | ticcan wrote: |
In the USA esp California it is thought that the agriculture economy would collapse if you removed all their illegal immigrant workers, costs go up, ppl are not happy. |
Alternatively, rich US farm owners - who are some of the wealthiest people in America (now cashing-in on ethanol and record food prices) could actually pay American farm workers a decent wage, rather than importing indentured labour from Mexico?
No - they'd never dream of such a thing. Instead, they'll make threats about the agricultual economy "collapsing" and use powerful lobbyists to pressure federal governments into turning a blind eye to illegal immigration - all in the name of protecting their profit margins - er, I mean the "wider economy" nudge, nudge. |
US govt should stop paying farmers subsidies as well.
UK farmers all claim they are virtually destitute lol
The problem is that they hire the immigrants because no one else wants to do the work. To get ppl to do that work you would have to pay them a lot more which would vastly increase the cost of food. So i am not sure what the real benefits of this are. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flame
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 4204
Location: Between paradigms
|
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ticcan wrote: | I find the labels pretty pointless anyway. Makes more sense to take things issue by issue than shouting accusations at eachother about which wing your point of view is from.
As i said, illegal immigrants are here, we dont know how many, but you can be sure they are paying no tax. So we can either carry on as we are with them paying no tax, or we can give them an amnesty so we know how many there are and get them actually paying some tax, cos they aint leaving either way. |
They fucking are if enough people shout loud enough!
As to skilled workers coming here in the absence of any home-grown talent,so be it.But as for the rest,it's simply without logical foundation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Decaying
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 744
|
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Belgians losing control of Brussels |
|
|
| Orwellian_Logic wrote: | Belgians losing control of Brussels
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f11_1189887753
Brussels might be 200 miles from London but the two capital cities have a lot in common. Both have extreme left-wing mayors, both are home to a growing migrant population from the Third World, both are home to a growing number of Muslims who are displaying all the signs of successful colonists cowering the indigenous population into submission.
Just two days ago we reported the brutal actions of Brussels police who smashed up a birthday party by Filip deWinter Leader of the Flemish nationalists, Vlaams Belang, to coincide with the sixth anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks by Islamic extremists on America.
The brutality of the Brussels police against just 300 friends and supporters of Mr. deWinter was unprecedented, with three leading VB members clubbed and arrested. Eye witnesses reported a fleet of water cannons, a mounted cavalry unit and a further riot squad were held just yards away in reserve, just in case the real defenders of European democracy including Frank Vanhecke, an elected MEP, were minded to carry out acts of extreme violence.
Minority decision-makers
While the overwhelming majority of the uniformed police officers from the Brussels force are native Belgians the people that made the decision to ban an earlier protest to stop the Islamification of Europe were colonisers.
Every year the authorities in Brussels, the capital of Belgium and of the European Union (EU), receive between 500 and 600 applications for permission to demonstrate or hold protest marches. With very few exceptions permission is always granted. In the past five years only six applications were turned down – an average of one a year. Among these was one for a demonstration by the DHKP/C, a Kurdish terrorist organization. However in August Freddy Thielemans, the Mayor of Brussels, announced that he was banning a demonstration against the Islamization of Europe, planned to be held on September 11 in front of the European Parliament buildings.
Mayor Thielemans was worried that the demonstration will upset the large immigrant population of Brussels. Over half the inhabitants of the Brussels region are of foreign origin, many of them from Morocco. According to the mayor there is a real danger of violence between demonstrators and Muslims living in the neighbourhood. The latter might not tolerate native Europeans protesting against their continent becoming Eurabia.
Thielemans is a member of the Parti Socialiste (PS), a Belgian party which caters for the Muslim population. The PS is the largest party in Brussels, holding 17 of the 47 seats in the city council. 10 of the 17 PS-councillors are Muslims. The PS governs Brussels in a coalition with the Christian-Democrats, who have 11 councillors, of whom 2 are Muslims and 3 are immigrants from Sub-Saharan Africa. Only 13 of the 28 councillors in the governing coalition of the city are native Belgians. Thielemans is the most conspicuous of these. He is an atheist who is fond of Muslims, not because he respects religious people, but because he hates Christians.
Christianaphobe
On 2 April 2005 the Brussels mayor was attending an official cocktail party with the mayor of Angoulême (France), when the news of the death of Pope John Paul II reached him. On hearing the news he ordered “Champagne for everyone!” His French colleague walked out in disgust. Upsetting Catholics has never particularly worried the Socialist mayor of Brussels, for instance when he refused to ban a play (by a Moroccan-born author) which was advertised around the country on posters portraying the Virgin Mary with bare breasts.
In Mr. Thielemans’s absence his deputy, Algerian-born Faouzia Hariche, is Brussels’ acting mayor – which is an improvement. Hariche, too, obviously, is Muslim-friendly, but she has never publicly toasted the death of the Pope.
Last Spring, the Danish group Stop Islamiseringen af Danmark (SIAD), the British group Stop the Islamisation of Europe (SIOE) and the German group Pax Europa, decided to organize a protest march against the introduction of Sharia laws in Europe. The organizers want the march to take place on 9/11 in the streets of Brussels and to end in front of the EU Parliament.
The Brussels ban is a clear example of what happens when the native people lose control, political control of their own towns and cities. What can happen in Brussels today can happen in London, Cardiff or Glasgow tomorrow when the native people become a minority and the decisions are made by a minority with their own vested interests totally at odds with the wishes and aspirations and established traditions of the native people.
And Brussels controls the UK and the rest of Europe??????
Islamification here we come. Excuse me, I suppose I must just be paranoid as an 'agnostic'. |
We may all have to come to terms, whether we like it or not in having to adopt that the reality and concept of ‘life’ today is generally valueless?
Given that we have been for so long bombarded with unemotional moral or immoral images of war, death, destruction, torture, violence, sensationalism, lies, deceit, break-ups, divorce by so-called roll-models and political leaders, wouldn’t anyone expect a special mixed-soup of these attributes to rub-off onto society?
The explosion of the ‘world-wide-web’ and its constant barrage of pornographic, violent, lawless-like images and opinions do add a pinch of confusion to the recipe.
Then at the same time throwing-in Political Correctness on the hope to change the public’s attitudes is an obvious sign that contradiction and hypercriticalism has its place within the recipe.
It’s clearly far too late for the ‘quick-fix’ antidote so I think it would be better to wait until the storm/chaos subsides before the calm.
Just how powerful is the newly introduced ‘knife arches’ compared to the non-existent ‘moral arches?’
Lastly, if you think you can find ‘Clement people’ I have sad news for you, they no longer exist.
If you have a clear glass colon it will bring hope to finding your way out from where you are at!!
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Gumtree
Search
Register
Log in
Profile
Memberlist
FAQ
