Truth Movement bigger than Anti War Movement

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plan cee

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 171

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: Truth Movement bigger than Anti War Movement

Alternative 9/11 Chronicles trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odZNebRubdo&feature=related

hmmmm_maybe

Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 3967
Location: Kent

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject:

From the trailer, you can see how everyone in power is trying to close ranks around the government's theory on 9/11. Some very brave people out there willing to put their freedoms and safety on the line, in order to get the truth out. Maybe one day they'll just release the CCTV footage from around the Pentagon and other locations.

urinefacewash

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 19421
Location: Vermillion Sands

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject:

i saw one of the truth movement DVDs and it does raise a few pertinent questions... i just can't stand this leap to conspiracy why is it necessary to discover some malefic plot behind it all? surely a far more terrifying thought is that the most advanced power in the world suffered from a systematic failure?

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject:

urinefacewash wrote:

i saw one of the truth movement DVDs and it does raise a few pertinent questions... i just can't stand this leap to conspiracy

why is it necessary to discover some malefic plot behind it all? surely a far more terrifying thought is that the most advanced power in the world suffered from a systematic failure?

It's not only a systemic failure... It is a massive coverup.

That "loop" which 77 did prior to impacting the Pentagon is mathematically impossible if you take the 84 RADES data and try to apply it to a real world 767.

The more you dig the more anomolies you find.... No matter which direction you come at it from.

Jeremy Vyle

Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 14140
Location: Cyber Space

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject:

urinefacewash wrote:

Indeed. They scrambled their fighters to their borders and were caught with their trousers down. More worrying to me is the those that try to fight "wars of disinformation" only to profit from the blood of the innocent.

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject:

Jeremy Vyle wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

Indeed... which disinformation ? The WMD's ? The "No white phosphorous" at Fallujah ? The no wiretapping without a warrant ? I could go on and on.

urinefacewash

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 19421
Location: Vermillion Sands

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject:

JFK wrote:

Jeremy Vyle wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

Indeed... which disinformation ? The WMD's ? The "No white phosphorous" at Fallujah ? The no wiretapping without a warrant ? I could go on and on.

look, of course the AMerican government lied... and lies...and will continue to lie... but from a purely pragmatic view that is essential for governments... and from the beginning of State up til the present day there is the tradition of the "Noble Lie", it runs through Plato, to Machiavelli, to Schmitt and Leo-Strauss... what of it?

these aren't arguments for anything other than the inherent, too say the least, dubiousness of state-power.

for me, opposing a government because of some horrific policy, plot or failure entirely misses the point- and no matter how connected to truth-telling and radicalism the Truth Movement thinks it is it simply isn't... it remains wedded to the government's conceptual terrain and to a kind of conservatism

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject:

urinefacewash wrote:

JFK wrote:

Jeremy Vyle wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

Indeed... which disinformation ? The WMD's ? The "No white phosphorous" at Fallujah ? The no wiretapping without a warrant ? I could go on and on.

So in simpler terms you choose to remain a "sheeple". Got it. Wink

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject:

urinefacewash wrote:

Out of curiousity which one did you watch ?

urinefacewash

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 19421
Location: Vermillion Sands

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject:

JFK wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

Out of curiousity which one did you watch ?

don't know the name of it... it was about 3 hours long if thats any help

and it featured a conference

urinefacewash

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 19421
Location: Vermillion Sands

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject:

JFK wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

JFK wrote:

Jeremy Vyle wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

Indeed... which disinformation ? The WMD's ? The "No white phosphorous" at Fallujah ? The no wiretapping without a warrant ? I could go on and on.

So in simpler terms you choose to remain a "sheeple". Got it. Wink

i don't see how you get that from what i wrote..

i'm an anti-state communist blad, at least in ideological terms

Jeremy Vyle

Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 14140
Location: Cyber Space

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject:

JFK wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

JFK wrote:

Jeremy Vyle wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

Indeed... which disinformation ? The WMD's ? The "No white phosphorous" at Fallujah ? The no wiretapping without a warrant ? I could go on and on.

So in simpler terms you choose to remain a "sheeple". Got it. Wink

BAHAHAHHAAAA!!!!! UFW = probably the most ulstra-left-wing poster here. But he doesn't blindly follow your inane preaching. So he's the sheep?

Look in the mirror you thick brainwashed cuntyfuck. Rolling Eyes

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject:

urinefacewash wrote:

JFK wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

Out of curiousity which one did you watch ?

don't know the name of it... it was about 3 hours long if thats any help

and it featured a conference

That sounds kinda like 911 Mysteries... Which turned me off, except for the part on Anthrax. Another series of lies. Steven Hatfill was just awarded 5.8 M in a lawsuit this past week. -
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ggnSVGuQvX23iSN9fCYgtmUMsaBAD91IPT580

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject:

Jeremy Vyle wrote:

JFK wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

JFK wrote:

Jeremy Vyle wrote:

urinefacewash wrote:

Indeed... which disinformation ? The WMD's ? The "No white phosphorous" at Fallujah ? The no wiretapping without a warrant ? I could go on and on.

So in simpler terms you choose to remain a "sheeple". Got it. Wink

An example of my reasearch -

Quote:

Foreward -
This began as a debate on which side of the CITGO station flight 77 flew on, North or South.
A Group which call themselves CIT ( Citizens investigate truth ) have over the past year been interviewing eyewitnesses of flight 77's path.
Thus far they have over 10 eyewitnesses which place the plane north of the Citgo, and zero who place it to the south of the Citgo.
Several of them pentagon police officers.

Who Cares you say ?

Well, if the flight path was north of the Citgo that presents 2 problems.
1. The light poles... For the light poles to have been hit by 77, it's flight path HAS to be south of the Citgo.
2. Because of the topology of the pentagon area the plane could not have crashed where everyone says it did if it was north of the Citgo.

The problem arises from the skeptics perspective that the yellow line above could not be followed by the plane and it would stall and crash before the pentagon.
And they pointed me to a nifty online aircraft performance calculator. ( more on that later ) Wink

Indeed they were correct... it is too sharp of a bank.

So were all these eyewitnesses misrembering the same thing ?

At this point I began my quest..... To find out what actually happened using only the 84 RADES radar data and the NORAD tapes.... and math.
So here it goes... Sorry about being so long winded, but.....

===============================================

OK, we all know that the hijackers of all 4 planes turned their transponders off... Correct ?

Well I just got finished downloading 4 CD-ROMS worth of 84 RADES software and tracks from 9/11/2001.

In the following image the green dots represent transponder responces while the blue dots represent "search" or just plain radar responces.

( click image to enlarge )

[url="http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6172/wtcradesmf1.png"]

[/url]

The following image is data from flight 11 ( northerly track ) just before the transponder was turned off.
As you can see in the M3 field it is "squaking" code 1443
[color="#ee4a2d"]Edit - I have just confirmed that 1443 is the original M3 code via DRM1 DAT2 Channel 4 ID op @ 12:43:30 of the NORAD tapes.[/color]

This image is data immediately after the transponder on flight 11 was turned off.

And this image is the data from flight 175 about 5 miles from the south tower.... The final green dot.

Things that make ya go hmmm. :hmmm:

The .iso files for the CD-ROMS are available here :

[url="http://aal77.com/rades/rades.september11.iso"]Software[/url] ( 385 Mb )

[color="#ee4a2d"]DISCLAIMER[/color]

[url="http://aal77.com/rades/rades.wtc.iso"]Flights 11 & 175[/url] ( 302 Mb )

[url="http://aal77.com/rades/rades.pentagon.iso"]Flight 77[/url] ( 472 Mb )

[url="http://aal77.com/rades/rades.ual93.iso"]Flight 93[/url] ( 324 Mb )

Note : The RADES system 3 installation software wanted to install an additional program named "Peek & Poke" which I denied.

Edit to add - A nice NORAD audio tape tool is available [url="http://aal77.com/norad/Norad%20Audio%20Tool.ace"]HERE[/url] .
Just remember to put the audio in the same directory as the tool... You can extract the files with winrar.
A screenshot :

By syncronizing the above programs NORAD found out that 175 crashed 2 minutes after the fact.

Hmmm, Flight 11 was quite a ways into already being hijacked when the earliest of the NORAD tapes begin.

( click image to enlarge )

[url="http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8495/hijackedoi8.png"]

[/url]

First mention of "real world hijack" occurs here :

[url="http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/4043/realworldtu8.png"]

[/url]

NORAD is informed about flight 11's original M3 code at this point :

[url="http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5451/11mode3sq5.png"]

[/url]

From the conversation it sounds like they needed the M3 code to locate the plane's current track.

And roughly 7 minutes after flight 11's crash NORAD finds out about it..... From the NEWS. Rolling Eyes

And they are still clueless about flight 175.

Flight 77's final speed calculated from the RADES data.

NOTE: A level flight path is assumed between the 2 points.

In the top of the image below the pinkish circles represent the data aquistion points.

In the center is the pertinant data from those points.

At the bottom is the RADES calculator with the lat / long figures entered with the result being displayed in feet.

The distance between point a and point b is 6619.681 feet.
The time it took to get from point a to point b is 11.915 seconds.

There are 5280 feet in a mile.
There are [color="#090"]60[/color] seconds in a minute.
There are [color="#ee4a2d"]60[/color] minutes in an hour.

so the formula would be :

(( distance / 5280 ) * ( [color="#090"]60[/color] / time )) * [color="#ee4a2d"]60[/color] = MPH

Plug the numbers in and you get :
(( 6619.681 / 5280) * ( [color="#090"]60[/color] / 11.915 )) * [color="#ee4a2d"]60[/color]
( 1.2537274621 * 5.04 ) * [color="#ee4a2d"]60[/color]
6.318786408984 * [color="#ee4a2d"]60[/color]

Which is 379.13 MPH.

For the following chart the "3d radar range calculator" which is a part of the 84 RADES RS3 software package was used to determine the

distance in feet between the plot points.

The rest of the calculations were done with the Windows calculator using the following formula.

((( distance in feet / 5280 ) * ( 60 / elapsed time )) * 60 ) = MPH

Distances in feet - Distance in miles
6102.475 - 1.155771780303030303030303030303
6846.578 - 1.2967003787878787878787878787879
7378.655 - 1.3974725378787878787878787878788
7376.115 - 1.3969914772727272727272727272727
6147.293 - 1.1642600378787878787878787878788

6745.202 - 1.2775003787878787878787878787879
6623.855 - 1.2545179924242424242424242424242
6744.548 - 1.2773765151515151515151515151515
6444.75 - 1.2205965909090909090909090909091
5423.063 - 1.0270952651515151515151515151515

5375.982 - 1.0181784090909090909090909090909
4960.209 - 0.93943352272727272727272727272727
5882.601 - 1.1141289772727272727272727272727
5972.211 - 1.1311005681818181818181818181818
4098.695 - 0.77626799242424242424242424242424

6509.818 - 1.2329200757575757575757575757576
5713.287 - 1.0820619318181818181818181818182
7889.516 - 1.4942265151515151515151515151515
6622.525 - 1.2542660984848484848484848484848

Elapsed time - 60 divided by elapsed time
11.95 - 5.0209205020920502092050209205021
11.825 - 5.0739957716701902748414376321353
12.09 - 4.962779156327543424317617866005
11.855 - 5.0611556305356389708983551244201
11.925 - 5.0314465408805031446540880503145

12.045 - 4.98132004981320049813200498132
11.97 - 5.0125313283208020050125313283208
12.015 - 4.9937578027465667915106117353308
11.88 - 5.0505050505050505050505050505051
11.95 - 5.0209205020920502092050209205021

11.905 - 5.0398992020159596808063838723226
11.88 - 5.0505050505050505050505050505051
11.815 - 5.0782903089293271265340668641557
11.915 - 5.035669324381032312211498111624
11.84 - 5.0675675675675675675675675675676

11.84 - 5.0675675675675675675675675675676
11.84 - 5.0675675675675675675675675675676
11.88 - 5.0505050505050505050505050505051
11.915 - 5.035669324381032312211498111624

Speed in MPH
348.18229364777481932293647774818
394.76713434556986354026523159686
416.1208549515001127904353710803
424.2234768605498255434990989607
351.47472841623785020011435105748

381.81829503000113211819313936348
377.29864433811802232854864433798
382.7345363749858131880603790714
369.87775482093663911845730027545
309.41782046405477367820464054758

307.89099308922912450841892253033
284.67682506887052341597796143242
339.47222329088600777132304851279
341.75090603898828825391981078066
236.02743012899262899262899262889

374.87434735872235872235872235851
329.00531710687960687960687960679
452.79591368227731864095500459121
378.96415900507381833441422195068

NOTE : a level flight path was assumed for the above calculations... Also the curvature of the radius of the spiral was NOT taken into account.

2 MB plot for 77's spiral.

[url="http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6772/masterplot2jn9.png"]

[/url]

Aircraft performance calculator -
[url="http://www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html"]http://www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html[/url]

The 2 points at # 7 and # 15 in the above chart is the end points of the 180 degree turn.
That gives a time difference of 1 minute 35.330 seconds.
The distance between those points is 25991.553 feet according to the 84 RADES 3d Radar range calculator. which works out to 4.9 miles.
The average speed for those points is 321 MPH.

In this graphic, the green hilites are the best match with known data and the yellow is the problem area.

The conclusion ?

Flight 77 should have crashed and burned half way through it's spiral.

And yours is where ?

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject:

Sorry, your forum butchered the majority of my linke... you can still copy and paste if you should decide to verify.. Yeah right.

urinefacewash

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 19421
Location: Vermillion Sands

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If conspiracy theory is essentially right wing, it can only be so because it posits a view of History as the work of individuals rather than groups.

thats the problem i have with this stuff...

and with all the good will in the world JFK, i'm afraid even if you struck on an undeniable, impossible for people to ignore, bonafide fact that showed 9/11 as being an American government action

well... i think it'd get ignored...

people know all about the american government's real atrocities, its continued and systematic atrocities... but most people simply don't care

the facts the themselves, with deep regret, simply aren't congent enough these days

Jeremy Vyle

Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 14140
Location: Cyber Space

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject:

JFK wrote:

Sorry, your forum butchered the majority of my linke... you can still copy and paste if you should decide to verify..

Yeah right. Rolling Eyes

How many commercial passenger airliners have you flown?

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject:

urinefacewash wrote:

Quote:

If conspiracy theory is essentially right wing, it can only be so because it posits a view of History as the work of individuals rather than groups.

The bolded portion is the problem... Well, not really. Let me explain.

Some may think me naive, but I do think that people will fight evil once they see it. The problem is the misinformation, of which there is way too much, being intersperced with legitamate truth. One such example I have seen here was stated by plan cee... "911 was an inside job". That is false, but not entirely. 911, from my research, was an inside and outside job. It was not entirely concieved and carried out by the USA... But at this point I am not ready to begin naming names.

Anyway if people would look at what has thus far been discovered objectively, I believe that the people would revolt and overthrow the guilty governments. But as long as they remain "conspiracy theories" to be ridiculed nothing will happen. In that sense Jeremy Vile and his kind are actually aiding the true "evildoers".

When I first got into this nearly 5 years ago I had Jeremy's attitude towards it and wanted to debate the "crackpots" and show them they they were flat out wrong.... So I started researching for legitamate arguements and found out that the majority of what they were saying was not necessarily 100% on, but it was not all bullshit either.

The more questions I asked and had answered the more questions manifested themselves... at a 3 to 1 rate on average.

Do I have all the answers ? No... but I do have many... In the areas in which I am interested in. And I look at the events of 911 as a "focal point". 911 was an inevitable culmination of things which in my research have been in the planning stages since 1913 at the least... and the repercussions will still be going strong long after I am planted.

If people don't know, they can do nothing to reverse the problem.

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 13169

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject:

how big is the 'dont give a toss' movement

urinefacewash

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 19421
Location: Vermillion Sands

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject:

this is precisely what Noam Chomsky thinks.... he pushes out book after book loaded with facts that he thinks will set off, if not revolution, at least a serious citizen-led movement against the state but it doesn't happen what is needed are events... historical events... but we live, as tragic as it is to say, in eventless times. this doesn't mean that 9/11, war, violence, aren't important and aren't without their subjective horror but until something comes along that causes a break in history, a real jump from situation A to situation B, most people won't care and those who do will remain ineffectual that is my pessimism... i do have an optimistic side though

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject:

Jeremy Vyle wrote:

JFK wrote:

Sorry, your forum butchered the majority of my linke... you can still copy and paste if you should decide to verify..

Yeah right. Rolling Eyes

How many commercial passenger airliners have you flown?

Personally myself ? None. I have flown and landed a Cessna once.

Since when do you need to fly to do the math ?

If you would like to speak with many Commercial Pilots who agree with my assesment I would direct you here - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?

Of course you need to login before you can view that forum. Wink

JFK

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3693

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject:

.? wrote:

how big is the 'dont give a toss' movement

It's getting smaller by the day. Wink

urinefacewash

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 19421
Location: Vermillion Sands

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject:

.? wrote:

how big is the 'dont give a toss' movement

that movement should be established with Bartleby the Scrivner as its Bible

6xXKesXx9

Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 14707

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject:

.? wrote:

how big is the 'dont give a toss' movement

Huge

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 13169

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject:

is it as big as the 'couldnt give a fuck' movement

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