[Bluey]

Looks like the UK is following the US welfare model pioneered in Wisconsin which reduced their claimant count by 80%.

I can't see this getting implemented - the government tends to tinker with and dilute their intended policies. Overall, the aim is to ensure there is "no right to a life on benefits" for anyone capable of working. What do you think?

- addicts will be forced to seek treatment or lose their benefits (estimated 240,000 heroin or crack addicts on benefits will be required to seek treatment in return for their money)

- the long-term unemployed will be forced to work for their dole (People on jobseekers' allowance for more than a year will be forced to do at least four weeks' full-time work in return for benefits and will be put on back-to-work programmes run by private or voluntary groups paid by results)

- After two years of unemployment, claimants will move to US-style workfare schemes and be expected to turn up every day to sign on for work programmes in exchange for benefits

- Incapacity benefit and income support will also be abolished (Up to two million will be tested to see what they CAN do, not what they CAN’T)

-Single mothers will have to seek work once their children turn seven. At present they can remain on benefits until their children reach 16.

[Cov]

Wow, that's a pretty sensitive subject.
Generally I think people can get themselves into the need for support at any time with - or without that's their fault.

We supposed to have a social market but we all know that the economy rules it.
Sure there are always people who abuse the system.
Difficult to manage - fairly.

o Instead of forcing addicted people to seek treatment, why not to tackle the problem from the root ?
o Regarding the long term unemployed - why not looking deeper and finding that some of them need more guidance in what which way to go, how to develop and maybe change route altogether.
o Handicapped people have it not easy anyway (in many respects), but that's just another symptom of a disturbed society, to focus on the last resorts.
Rather than stop praying to the secret god called economy.

Sorry, but I'm just frustrated about the lack of human aspects and the financial injustice in general.

[David Essex]

[Bluey]

I think Labour are trying to take the steam out of Cameron's intended policies by pre-empting it. He's always been open about admiring the US welfare model which cut the number of claimants by 60% across the US while the numbers in the UK continue to rocket upwards. Labour must know that he will make it central to his election campaign.

"In Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester the figure [of people claiming benefits] rises to one in four. In a booming economy, such statistics are absurd, as well as unforgivable.

...Rather than tackling poverty per se, the focus will be on tackling the behaviour which leads to poverty — namely worklessness, educational failure and family breakdown.

Mr Cameron is much taken by the work of William Galston, a political theorist behind the Clinton-era welfare reforms. Galston identified three steps to escaping poverty: finish school, marry before having children and avoid teenage pregnancy. Among those who did all three, only 8 per cent were poor. Of those who did none, 79 per cent were poor.

Violent crime goes hand in hand with male joblessness (itself at an all-time peak). ...Mass immigration now makes it impossible to argue that there are not enough jobs in Britain. "

http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/313841/cameron-means-business-on-welfare-the-tories-are-the-radicals-again.thtml

[Cov]

[Bluey]

[the beak]

it should be remembered that jobs are not always available in some areas,as most engineering doesnt exist in this country anymore along with lots of other manafacturing.
most work if you can call it that is stuck in front of a computor screen.
and the ooops that abuse the system should get long prison sentances,i was horrified at the programme i watched the other night about benefit fraud,those people give everyone a bad name.
but the mps are into benefit fraud in a big way as we have seen about mps expenses, so its not encouraging the person in the street is it.

[Jeremy Vyle]

[Bluey]

I don't think it's been triggered by or is about stamping out fraud (though this will be a consequence).

It seems to be that the UK, as ever, is following the US lead and now has less appetite for welfare dependency and has started to think that this is what keeps people poor, it is no longer a temporary need or a leg-up back into work but actually perpetuates poverty.

The pendulum is swinging away from the state being responsible and placing it back on the individual to contribute something back in return for the support they receive.

"In America the politicians managed to change the way the public thought about welfare. It was no longer seen as cruel or mean to cut someone’s welfare in order to force them to get a job. In fact thinking changed 180 degrees. It was actually seen as cruel to keep someone on welfare a day longer than necessary. The only way out of poverty is through work.."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2007/11/welfare_the_british_position.html

[Cov]

[quote="Jeremy Vyle"]Only the addicts THEMSELVES can make the first step to recovery. Addiction is a disease of the mind. You CANNOT force an addict to recover. It's well documented. The root is the pain the addict is in, and it's only by dealing with that can you begin to treat the addiction.[quote]
Hmm, everything inside of me does not agree with the fact that an addict can get clean WITHOUT help.
I refuse to believe that living in a violent environment, prepared for life absolutely insufficient and being forced to stay together with the wrong people.
I can't see changes without tackling the root causes.
And you wanna tell me that the person affected should get his backside up and change him/herself ?

No I understand why we still haven't solved these kind of problems yet.