[kettlebellyfish]

[plumbing philosopher]

Good post little miss, our world needs people like you!

In our age of late modernity or what some would call an era of postmodernism we have problems that are emerging. Manufacturing and production that have kept the masses of our country in wages good enough to buy houses and food have all but gone. What we have now are service industries that require different skills or skills to itermediate level - as a plumber I fit in here, I earn and the money allows me to make choices.

Poor people are supported by the state, but they are also owned by the state - instead of being paid to work in crappy jobs to keep the masses subdued, the masses are now given benefits - the ruling class hope these benefits will keep the poor quiet, taking their mind off the massive gap that has opened up in our society between the haves and the have nots.

I here the 'agency' argument all the time, that people make choices and should be able to direct their own lives - but - we also have structure, in terms of pre-determined social biographies. These structures that are political, historical and economical keep the poor, poor. There are a few examples of poor boy made good, capital's example of how the system works - perhaps one person for every hundred makes the £million - unfortuneately these go from gutter to gutter in one generation and its back to square one for the up and coming poor.

We do have scroungers in our society and those who do not contribute, but we have to ask why is this the case, what makes this so - can all really be down to one individual lazy person - I used to think so, but learning, thinking and listening to others, has helped me to lesson my ignorance - the Germans call this einfuhlung, or 'feeling into' we must try to make an effort to see the world from the perspectives of others and make judgements after we have pondered.

[The Funktipuss]

[quote]I was with my ex fiance for just over 2 yrs when he had the brilliant idea of having a baby.

Did you really think it was was a good idea to have a kid with someone you've been with for only twenty four months of your life?

Stroll on.

Yet another example of people that do something before they think. It wouldn't be so bad but , yet again, there's a kid involved. But hey, thank your lucky stars that you're in the uk. You'd be on the bones of your arse in any other country. Or you'd HAVE to find a job regardless what it was and what the hours were. The taxpayers will look after you.

[grannyclark]

Hi everyone,

Im a 58 year old woman who has yet again found herself looking for a job.

Am I a scrounger??????????????

Judge from the information below:

At the age of 15, I left school with no qualifications, which didnt matter too much back then as jobs were 10 a penny, I took time off between the years of 1974 and 1981 as I had my children (3), for 6 of these 7 years I was lucky enough to be married to a man who earned enough to get us by, so for approx 1 year I claimed benefits.

Then due to ill health between 1990 and 1998 I was unemployed again, but was still married until 1995, therfor between 1995 and 1998 i recieved benefits, (3 years) I worked until 2005 when I was made redundant, then for around 6 months had a job, then found myself unemployed again as the company did not get their contract renewed.

I have worked as a trainee wages clerkess, in a factory, stacking shelves, in a stockroom, sorting mail, and being an escort for the old and infirm, and handicapped.

At the moment I am doing voluntary work, escorting the elderly which is the result of a jobcentre course/placement.

The problem I am having is that Im (well my body is) too old for the manual labour I used to do and Im not educated/experienced to do anything else, Its hard to get someone willing to employ a high school drop-out, who can no longer manage manual labour, and my age (5 does me no favours whatsoever.

I love the voluntary work that I do and who knows it may with luck lead on to employment, But I do it for love not money, although Id rather earn the meagre £60 hand out I recieve weekly, as its feels so much better to spend money that you have earned.

Its also not much fun having to attend the jobcentre once a fortnight with 6 ITEMS OF PROOF that I have been looking for a job! Should the fact that over the last 40 years of my working life I have only claimed benefits for 5 not be proof enough, you are treated in my opinion with distain and mistrust.

As a matter of interest I do own my own modest bedsit, therfor do not claim housing benefits.

35 years I have worked and hopefully more to come, but I do wonder what its all for to have a little matchbox of a home you can call your own, and then if your health deteriorates to the point when you have to go into care, they take that from you as well!

Well Id like to know anyones thoughts on this, especially city plumbers.

Am I a scrounger Plumber?

ushoo82, never give up, and never let yourself be put down.

[plumbing philosopher]

grannyclark

You are a human being as such help others to become human. Its sad that the wealthy in are society are not just happy with their wealth and social status, but they have to hold the poor with contempt.

However, you are by no means poor, you have the real riches of life, that joy which comes through helping others that cannot be bought or sold - its called dignity.

[littlemiss03]

Firstly, id like to say thanks to philosopher for the comments, but next time in laymans terms, Im not that bright, I had to read it three times x

And also belly fish, spot on x

Albion EVERYONE is unique!!! Thank god for that!

Plumber, might I point out that Ushoo did not ask for judgement on her situation, she was asking for the opinion of other people in the same situation as her, on how they felt about being called scroungers!!!

After reading philosophers post I just wanted to add that, Im not particularly a religeous person, I sit on the fence when it comes to this matter, as I believe that whether it is a true historical referance, or just a book of myth and legend, the bible (for the most part) is a good moral guide, writen for the good of humanity, (although you wouldnt think it, considering the amount of blooshed in the name of religion). Its funny that when the statistics on the biggest killers annully are published, Cancer and heart disease are always high on the list, but religion is never mentioned.

Anyway I believe that human beings are like a massive flock of sheep, some wander off te track and its up to the rest of the flock to help and guide them back onto it again.

Man was created stronger than woman, not to beat her down, but to help her, hunt gather, and protect. Some people are mentally stronger and it is their responsibility to nurture and protect more vulnerable people. These gifts of strength are given to use wisely, not to abuse and oppress others.

Put this into perspecive, we live in such a selfish, self indulgent society. We are squabbling over helping someone who would probably be the first to admit that, she didnt or didnt want to read the warning signals, and has ended up in a sticky situation, but havent we all done that at one time or another??? Or at least have a loved one or friend who has???

So you have to pay a tiny portion of your wage to help her out for a limited time!!!

But I dont here any complaints when you are CHOOSING to line the pockets, and fund the lifestyle of models, football players, chief executives, recording artists. Why do we all do this? For status. Look at my new car/house, jeans, cd/dvd collection, didnt I do well!!!

Do you complain about having to pay super inflated prices to get into a Madonna concert, or any concert for that matter, or buying cds/dvds at around £10-£15 a time, these people are multi-millionaires already. Do they need to charge this amount of money? Is it a surprise that illegal downloading is so rife? We the consumer fund this lifestyle for them and then complain as we have elevated them to cult status, and now they are unreachable as they are put in a completely different category to just as hard working "normal", people.

What about the new £500-£1000 LCD tv you have just bought, just to find that in a years time technology has "moved on" but more likely has been held back, and now your relativly new television is obsolete!!!

Christmas time and Nintendo make sure that there is apparantly limited stock on the WII console (clever advertising). So we flock in our thousands to pay on average £50-£100 more than the RRP price because we dont want to disappoint our kids.

There is such a thing as an equilibrium price, and if we wernt demanding products at these rediculous prices, the companies ans suppliers would have to lower the prices. Its all demand and supply, if theres no demand theres no supply, yes we all do it to ourselves. (im no different)

What about that loan that you just took on or the mortgage you can barely afford, with the massive APR (All for the sake of keeping up with the Jones). A house or car that should cost X amount, but in reality costs double or more, its our own sense of self impotance, They may be hunger in impoverished countries but believe me there is a lot of hunger in this coutry too, its just a differt type of hunger, for status and notoriety.

And who wins?

The company cheif executives, the models, celebrities, footballers, Bank managers, all giving themselves annual pay rises and bonuses, and earning way in excess of the work that they actually do!!!

Certainly not the comsumer!!!

The minimum wage was supposed to be a good thing, but has driven companies underground.

How many ofyou shop at Tesco? for example, Sri-Lankan sweat shops, (whether they were aware of it or not)!!! taking the jobs from britain and finding cheaper labour else where, not because they have to but because there is more profit to be made for themselves and they can get on with the job of dominering the market!!!

What about the car you drive?

Is it British???

We are all part to blame for the state of the economy.

For those of you that made quipps about smack and crack heads, at least they normally have a reason for this!!! NOTE I DID NOT SAY EXCUSE! What about theanonymous wealthy man i a suit who has a good paying 9 to 5 job, but imports this into the country. Does he have an reason??? Yes greed.

And for the person who said that in any other country youd be sitting on the bones of your a se. To which country do you refer???

I watched a very imteresting documentary one night, where an obscure tribe lived with 3 of our so-called, "social classes" for a week each, afterwards you saw them at home.

They were the most loving caring community,. Why?

Beacause they are innocent!!!

They live in blissfull ignorance.

They have no understanding of the concept of money, power, dominance, self-importance or any of the other evils that this society produces.

We buy fair trade products, we are trying to help the 3rd wold/developing countries out of poverty. Why?

So that they can develope into a greedy, power and status hungry nation just like us???

I may not want to swap my lifestyle for theirs, (I enjoy my home comforts too much). But I would definately do anything for the sense of community, caring and sharing that they all have.

Why are they like this???

Because they know that to get things done you have to be part of a team, and they all get an equal share for doing an equal amount of work. We seem to have forgotten that silly us.

Maybe it would have been a better idea for the government instead or as well as introducing the minimum wage, to have capped the yearly amount of income, pay rises, and bonuses that one person could have!!!!

So please before passing judgement on the jobless, stop and think about the real criminals here, and our own part to play in this .

[littlemiss03]

hi City Plumber,

I forgot to mention, guess whos still together after all the sh t thats gone on between them???????

[wkddd]

I agree with city plumber...why pay taxes for chavs in there 20's to get shagged up and end up on benefits then just complain about the free handouts... people who really need them (people injured in war,disabled etc) should be getting them...no wonder this countrys in a recession... might aswell burn the money that they give away !

[tiggerisbigger]

yi canny blame your ex cos you had a wayne . get a job .

[City Plumber]

[Lilly Ann]

Well said City Plumber. I couldn't care less about this girl's relationship with her ex, and dont understand why did she spill it all for us to know, using their names as if we care.

Ushoo, you're just a little drama queen and I do pity your daughter for the education and upbringing she will get. It has nothing to do with you being a single mum, and everything to do with you being a chav (sorry - you're scottish: a ned, then), who's whiny, annoying, bitter and awfully ignorant.

And I also read a comment saying 'this girl is entitled not to work because she has a baby'. Well, I shouldn't pay for her baby cause she cant keep her legs shot. Even if she did think her bf at the time loves her, you cannot have a baby if you cannot afford it financially. If you do: you're irresponsible. if you're irresponsible, your toddler will probably grow up on the same manners, moral codes and ideas. Now why would you want that?

Bring on the yelling and shouting now, girls. Just remember, doesn't really care what you're gonna say, at the end of the day i'm still happy being this person who's saving up for a nice home, a nice car and a nice nursery for my non-existing child. Hopefully they'll get the best chance they could have. God knows that won't be in a council flat and a mummy who really wants to drag her ex to Jeremy Kyle...

[lil_grinner]

[daisy_darling]

Well it foxes me how people manage to claim benefits and indeed, do it so successfully that they can live off them. Four years ago my husband had a nervous breakdown and but for the kindness of our respective parents we would have sunk, financially.

From our perspective the benefits system seems to be set up purely for the convenience of immigrants and single mothers.

That said, at least the OP is trying to find work.

[wkddd]

I agree to all above... Seems like people agree all the NI money should be put to better places...

recently i spent 5-1/2 weeks in hospital...payed for by my years of NI and the many many years of it to come...

so what if you became ill whilst you were on benefits...not only would you be taking money for that you never payed into the NHS....etc etc anyway you get my point...

get a job, save up...then have your legs tied together and sort out a life for the kid...




Wkddd

[littlemiss03]

This is my last post on this, cos quite frankly Im getting bored of it now!!! Ive not seen one intelligent post here in the last few days.

Plumber your just concieted, but you are quite amusing, as you like causing drama, no doubt to fill the void in your insignificant existance.

Lil_grinner, I did say in my last comment that I wasnt having a pop at you, I mearly stated that everyone has different ideas on bringing up children, and some people would tutt-tutt at you leaving your child at 8 weeks to go to work, Its like when your on the bus and your little one is having a tantrum, If you get angry, some people will say "thats terrible", and if you try to talk to them and reason, and they keep doing it some people will say thats, "terrible", its catch 22. All I meant was that opinions differ from person to person. Ushoo was merely saying how hard it is to KEEP a job, with a lot of employers when you have kids, as obviously this can make you unreliable, (sickness etc). And stated that she wanted to get a job, Im afraid the people you are directing this ire at will not be sitting on this website trying to find a job.


Lilly Ann, whether you like it or not the fact remains, that the government says, if you are a single parent you do not HAVE to get a job!!! So get used to it, or try spending the time it took you to write this post, trying to change the situation, by directing this SCORN at the correct people, you should consider writing to your MP. Although I dont know how far youll get they may question your choice of words, ha, ha. "Line all neds, chavs, up against the wall and shoot them"!!! Ignorance!!! One day you will see for yourself, god help anyone who inherits your moral codes, go on pick on the vulnerable if you must!!! (Oh and what exactly do you have against council flats) Dont you think thats going a bit toooooo far???


Wkddd, No comment, the language you produce says it all!!!!!!!!!

[Sara80]

I am so happy to see that some people in here have never made a mistake in their lives or suffered any financial strain.

Isnt it enough that a young woman has felt the need to explain herself to a bunch of complete strangers? What right does anyone on this planet have to question a childs right to be? Or the nature of someone elses relationship break down.

I have met many men with severely inflated egos, all whom have had their own views on how they could run other peoples lives so much better and indeed, everyone was a victim of tiny penis syndrome.

I know its not your fault city plumber, but on a different note, how much work do you have these days? I ask only as a large portion of your time seems to be spent spitting verbal venom at single mothers in cyberspace.

Kids? Girlfriend? Friends?

Or just a computer, a bad case of back fat and an over inflated ego....er sorry I meant girlfriend.

[wkddd]

[quote]Wkddd, No comment, the language you produce says it all!!!!!!!!![/quote]

haha... I love it

[City Plumber]

[littlemiss03]

Wkddd

So you think your funny?...................................YAWN!!!!!!!!!

SAD

Lil_grinner im offering my knowledge and advice to this guy lol

Instead of getting your kicks out of coming on here trying to wind people up, why dont you, go to the bathroom with a small tissue, ab se yourself for 30 seconds, and get rid of all the tension!!!

[littlemiss03]

ha ha Plumber your right, I bow to your superiority, (business is booming) It is surprisingly!!!

[hugheskevi]

[Lilly Ann]

No money = no children

Again, Sarah, it has nothing to do with difficulties. I think most people (especially people with a mortgage, and in London) suffer from the current situation. That's why we WAIT until the time is right to have children.

Little Missy - shooting them neds and chavs? not a bad idea, but I didn't say that. But with all the fuss around council flats and benefits, it's pretty clear which boat you're in. Luckily it's not mine.

Other than that, everything's been said before. This good money I am paying for children who were unfortunately brought up to this world with very little thought and would probably suffer for it for the rest of their lives could have been handed to people who really need it, or alternatively, god forbid - be saved for the working man's pension.

Of course, there is no convincing you, and that's fine by me. I'm not the one getting back to a small council flat everyday and sitting with my pram once a week with the other scroungers and my hand out for a bit of pitty cash.

[wkddd]

[quote]Wkddd[/quote]

So you think your funny?...................................YAWN!!!!!!!!!

SAD Sad[quote]



no not really...just pointing out that SCROUNGERS are not welcome....are you one of them then?...littlemiss-benefits...[/quote]

[Bluey]

In some US states, the welfare system is such that accusations of scrounging can't be levied because they've essentially ended the passive receipt of benefits and dismissed the notion of entitlement.

Wisconsin, for example, has experienced a more than 80% reduction in claimants though the rate of illegitimacy didn't change as much as expected which the politicians regard as being more harmful than benefit dependency.

The general thrust of welfare reform has been to require reasonable behavior by recipients as a condition of receiving aid. An early example was Learnfare which requires welfare recipients to ensure that their school-age children attended school regularly, and reduced welfare payments to families with truant children.

Also, they often have workfare with the expectation that women with young children are also required to do - Individuals who failed to find employment within a few weeks are required to perform community-service work until they could find a private-sector job. A recipient see their welfare benefits reduced in direct proportion to the number of hours of community work not performed. An individual who performs no work would receive no benefits or food stamps.

There is also a 2 year limit on claiming benefits over a person's entire life to prevent long-term dependence.

However, they provide access to childcare which I think is the main problem in the UK and also jail fathers who won't contribute to child support.

[Tazza]

You know what? I do believe that if you were in a relationship that there is no love in or if you are in a violent relationship, I don't think it is right to bring a child into this world in either of those positions. To decide to bring a child into the world without a stable family.

I am 25 (got married at 21) and have a son of 2 years. I have been with my husband since i was 16. Relationships are not easy. People in this day and age do not work at relationships. If it goes bad, they move on. They don't work on it. I think if you knew this was the case, you should've known the position you were putting yourself in. If you had a baby to try trap him. To use a child as a pawn in your game to keep your man, then you should live with everything you think on your conscience as it was your own fault to fall pregnant in the beginning. Fair enough he is an ASSHOLE to put you in that position in the beginning, but it is no excuse from the situation that you lead yourself into. You have one life, and you chose a path you knew wouldn't be able to be changed. So you have to live with the consequences of living without your childs partner.

As for benefit. I am from South Africa. I have been in the UK for 5 years. I have a right to be here as my mother is British. Yet, on my current visa, I am not entitled to benefit. ANY benefit. When I fell pregnant, I left my permanent job and me and my husband moved to the country side. He was the bread winner. He earned almost double of what I was earning. He lost his job in the recession and now I have help from my family. I am living at my mothers house until we can get back on our feet. I do not claim a single penny from the government.

You are a scronger in the sense that you have just choosen benefit over family support because you don't want to live under someone else's roof and follow their rules. If you don't have family, then fair enough, you not a scronger, but you need to look at other options. If you live in South Africa, you would be living in a cardboard box next to a shop. Nothing is free in South Africa. School, Doctor appointments, medicine, you have to pay for EVERYTHING. Nothing is free!

Don't just sit at home and do nothing. If you worked part time and claimed benefits, at least you are doing something constructive and keeping your mind active.

I have a baby and i know how hard it can be. But family is most important when you are on your own.

And you ex... he is a dick. I think you wanted someone to agree with you on that.

And I know how it can feel when people look at you when you walk down the road and you not working... i feel that and i don't even claim benefit.

Keep your chin up. F*ck your ex, he is a dick. Get a part time job and be thankfull for every penny you get from the government.

I don't mean to offend, but that is my view!