[EP]

Hello,

I am currently looking for 1bed flat/studio in London. I´ve gone through the forum and read several pieces of negative feedback on agencies such as flatfinder, flatland etc.

I was wandering if more people have had recent bad dealings with them.

Also, and perhaps on a more ineteresting note, is there anyone who has anything positive to say about them (although I suspect if someone benefited from their service they would no longer have much use for this forum).

Any info/help/advice anyone can give would be much appreciated!!

Cheers
EP

[EP]

No ideas!? No one used this guys recently?

[Bluey]

Have had no dealings with them though Spacelet in particular has had repeated complaints posted on the forums.

Try to stick with regulated letting agents - ARLA and the like - who have complaints procedures and protection of clients money against absconders. Ask estate agents if they are accredited to a professional body - it only offers limited protection to tenants but at least it means that they are less likely to be unethical.

Don't pay any fees for viewings or registration which are illegal but some lettings agencies try to charge their prospective tenants for - you should only pay charges when you've viewed and accepted a place (i.e. for the credit checks, tenancy agreement etc).

Ask these estate agents for their full company name and company number and if they are limited companies, you can check their status on the Companies House websearch facility.

http://www.companies-house.gov.uk/

It's not a precise science but if it looks like their accounts are overdue and they have a history of being dissolved, then you can presume that the careless attitude they apply there will also apply to potential tenants and landlords.

[Sammie Aurora]

Theres a company on there called flatland limited in liquidation.
Whats that mean?

[Bluey]

It means that it is ceasing to trade, either voluntarily or because creditors owed money have kicked off a procedure to end the company.

I imagine that if you hunt around, you'll be able to find a register to indicate why a company is being liquidated.

You also have to be aware that there are a lot of similarly named companies in existence.

[Sammie Aurora]

Well I am desperately trying to find a flat as my landlord crossed the line with me.
I live in the same building with him. I have lived here for 3 years renting a room & kitchen upstairs in his house.
I don't trust anyone to share now, have been looking for flats and most of the ones on here and in loot are posted by flatland 1971.
Is there anywhere else where private landlords advertise?
I'm temped to go to this flatland but I don't want to waste money.
I need a studio in Shepherds bush area Max £150 a week.

[cupcake101]

HI THERE
I ARRIVED IN LONDON ABOUT A MONTH AGO,HAD VERY LITTLE MONEY WITH ME AND STRUGGLED TO FIND A FLAT ON MY OWN. I WENT TO SEVERAL ESTATE AGENCIES,WHO EVEN THOUGH THEY DONT CHARGE U ANY FEES UPFRONT,ADD LOADS ONTO YOUR RENT AND ASK FOR REFERENCES AND BIG DEPOSITS,(WHICH I DIDNT HAVE). I THEN HEARD ABOUT SPACELET, I WENT INTO THEIR OFFICE AND WAS TOLD ABOUT THE JOINING FEE OF £59. I WAS RELUCTANT AT FIRST BUT HAD NO OTHER CHOICE. I HAD TO FIND A FLAT. SO I SIGNED UP . I EXPLAINED ABOUT REFERENCES AND THE DEPOSIT SITUATION. STILL THEY MANAGED TO HELP ME AND FOUND ME A FLAT WITHIN TWO DAYS. MONEY THAT I THINK NOW, WAS WELL SPENT. SO IF ANY ONE NEEDS ANY HELP WITH FINDING A FLAT WITH A CHEAP RENT, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU GO TO THEM FOR HELP.

[richie1978]

spacelet, easylet. All complete rubbish to charge for viewings. Anyone can see its a scam!

I have reported them to BBC watchdog and look forward to seeing them on tv while I have my tea. They will get their comeuppance

[tashdevil]

I have paid my fee to Flatland and explained to them exactly what I want as a 35 yo professional.

In return they have sent me to student flat after student flat. I have been told that I am being too fussy and that's just the way it is in London, but I've been living here for 4.5 years and never before have I been shown around such appalling accommodation.

Flatland have been around since 1972, and I'm sure none of the flats they sent me to have been cleaned since 1972 either. If you're looking for short term (six months) accommodation and not too fussy then Flatland are fine and have loads on their books, however if you're looking for a better class of accommodation you're best sticking to reputable agents and Gumtree.

Also, the Flatland website is not up to date, so don't pay the fee without phoning and making sure the flat you've seen advertised is still available. I paid my fee online only to be told that the flat had been let 3 weeks previously and "it's just not possible to keep our website up to date"!

[Bluey]

Letting agents are not permitted by law in the UK to charge any upfront fees whatsoever, however they are described - admin fees, registration fees, viewing fees, processing fees - no advanced fee is permitted. They can only charge fees when they've secured accommodation for you.

http://forums.gumtree.com/topic50268.html

As well as being against the law, its pretty unethical - there is a stream of complaints on the Gumtree about Flatland, Spacelet and similar agencies that do this and they usually indicate that they are unable to put their money where there mouth is and produce properties that match people's requirements.

Letting agents that are members of regulated bodies never charge these fees - just rogue agents. They should earn their income for their service to tenants and landlords AFTER accommodation is found, not before. Remember, they charge both tenant and landlord handsomely for their services when tenancies are set up and there is no way on earth they are due any payment for a service not rendered!!

Do a keyword search for Flatland and Spacelet on this forum to get an idea of dozens of disgruntled 'tenants' who think that some agencies routinely exaggerate the quantity and quality of their vacant properties to secure easy cash through 'registration' fees.

Gumtree Admin are doing their best to crack down on this type of scam so if you've seen their ads on the site, let them know.

Speak to the Trading Standards department of the council where they operate for advice.

Ask Flatland for a refund of this illegal fee. If reluctant, send them a recorded letter before action demanding the return of the fee within a reasonable period of time (say a month), notifying them that you will kick off small claims court action for its return and then do this on the on the moneyclaims online site.

How to sue through the small claims court

http://forums.gumtree.com/topic19661.html

[Bluey]

[flat_land]

hi,

Just to share my experience with flatland1971 a few days ago. I went to their office to check out the 'thousands' of cheap accomodations they provide through their agency. Once you meet up with any of their advisors, they'll talk you in so that you pay the 62quid (for 1 person consultancy) which they say is well worth it with the 'thousands' of options available. Before paying, I have checked with my advisor regarding my 2 bed flats availability. There were 12 of them after searching for about 10 mins. That was great, I thought..so I'd pay in hope of getting a viewing asap- which amazingly I did.. we called about 8 of twelve, only 1 was available..went to the viewing only to find out that my flat is some shitty service apartment!! not a kind of place where you would want to live..returned back to the office and was greeted by another advisor (since the last one was not available). She then told me that it is impossible to find a flat within my budget in and around london, which I find ridiculous since my budget was 300pw for a 2 bed flat..(they told me earlier they've got thousands)..

I was appaled with the service, but also is ashamed of my stupidity in the first place!! Realised so many bad things about them after going through 1 viewing..

Facts about Flatland1971:

1. You have to pay 10 quid EXTRA if you pay at the office!! Yes..in the web it says:

1 Person Service £61.50
2+ Person Service £71.50

Compared to the office

1 Person Service £71.50
2+ Person Service £81.50

2. I went there alone, looking for a 2 bed flat. I was told to pay 81.50, which I refused so many times. I'd told them I'm using the service alone and not with anyone else..so i should pay for 1 person consultancy..they told me if you're looking for a 2 bed or above you have to pay for 2 person, which dictates the meaning of a '1 person consultancy'..I did manage to get away with that though..

3. They have a really outdated way of storing datas. Small pieces of paper written with not so valuable data..they provide with the general location of the flat..but not the street name!! there is NO-WAY of updating data with pieces of paper..you need a computer!!

4. The pieces of paper when I look properly contains contact numbers of Lettings Agents!! They DON'T deal with any private landlords!! Thats why the'landlords' have hundreds of houses available..

5. Their agreement letter stated that they are a 'INTRODUCTION LETTINGS AGENTS' which clearly means they are introducing you to other agencies..which you could do it yourself using Gumtree/loot etc..

6. Their office is filled with many foreigners/visitors which english is definately not their 1st language, looking for a longer term accomodation..Most locals ends up not paying for the consultancy after a brief meeting..

I hope this would convince all of you to not use Flatland. I have already wasted my 60 quid, so I really don't want other people to make the same mistakes as I did..

[Bluey]

Demand your fee back - its illegal to charge up-front fees to tenants before accommodation is found - and tell them that you'll take them to the small claims court to get it refunded.

http://forums.gumtree.com/topic50350.html

You need to send them a letter before action (recorded delivery) giving them the chance to settle within a month and detailing why the fee should be refunded, quoting that it was illegal and the low standard that they offered you, and notifying them that you will take them to court to recover it. Keep a copy of all your dealings with them. Then kick off a moneyclaim online (online small claims court service). Basic info here on what to do or call Shelter on their free advice line.

http://forums.gumtree.com/topic19661.html

If you paid by card, contact your bank to get a charge-back which is where they refund you the money.

Notify the Trading Standards and Tenants relation officer of the local council about this practice

http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/Housing/tenantsandlandlords/privatetenants.asp
http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/EnvironmentalServices/TradingStandards/default.asp

And contact the MP there to notify you of your experience of this letting agent that is flourishing despite charging fees to tenants that it shouldn't

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/malcolm_rifkind/kensington_and_chelsea

there are complaints here of their service and ads for accommodation that aren't available on their website by other potential tenants. It seems there is a serious mismatch between the accommodation on offer and expected by the tenant and what they have on their books. Understandably, this causes resentment once you've parted with the money and the goods can't be produced...

http://forums.gumtree.com/post-855004.html

"they have sent me to student flat after student flat. I have been told that I am being too fussy and that's just the way it is in London, but I've been living here for 4.5 years and never before have I been shown around such appalling accommodation. Flatland have been around since 1972, and I'm sure none of the flats they sent me to have been cleaned since 1972 either. ...if you're looking for a better class of accommodation you're best sticking to reputable agents and Gumtree.

Also, the Flatland website is not up to date, so don't pay the fee without phoning and making sure the flat you've seen advertised is still available. I paid my fee online only to be told that the flat had been let 3 weeks previously and "it's just not possible to keep our website up to date"!"

[drumin7]

I have written about this before...I can't believe you all moan about this stuff....it's NOT illegal...I did my investigations after I paid flatfinder to help me. I was pissed off thinking they had done something illegal. I called a lawyer - a QC none the less and I showed them flatfinder's contract. I don't want to go into the nitty gritty but it is fully legal and what's more flatfinder were awesome - and found me a place to live! Stop whinging and moaning people! I am certain you guys were after something that doesn't exist - you can't get what you had back home here in London!!! got it?!!

[Bluey]

FACT: under section 1 of the Accommodation Agencies Act, it is an offence for a letting agent "to demand or accept payment of any sum of money in consideration of registering,or undertaking to register, the name or requirements of any persons seeking the tenancy of a house".

This has been confirmed by Trading Standards and other consumer bodies. This means that an agency cannot take money off tenants for simply registering their details. Your QC can confirm this.

LOOPHOLES: Agencies circumvent this by making appointments for prospective tenants to view properties so pitch their fees at this activity to justify the charge and reduce the risk of being charged for an offence.

UNREGULATED AGENCIES: Regulated agency (that voluntarily joins a professional body) never charges tenants upfront fees. Therefore the practice of charging upfront fees lays squarely with cowboy unregulated agencies whose rogue practices flourish by exploiting a loophole and tenants ignorance of their rights. Agencies that charge this service fee are almost wholly pitched at a market for overseas visitors to the UK and migrant workers. 99% of agencies do not charge tenants anything before securing them accommodation.


FAKE ADVERTS: It is not uncommon for tenants to pay a fee to the agency because they are interested in a particular advert, only to find after payment that the 'property' is no longer available and they are then shown more expensive property in different areas of a much lower quality than the advert that tempted them to part with their fee. There are dozens of allegations to this effect posted by tenants on the internet to this effect. This shows that a number of tenants allege the practice of fake adverts to lure them into parting with an expensive fee.

BAD BUSINESS PRACTICES: The fact remains that there is no incentive for an agency to secure accommodation from landlords on its books if they are receiving fat fees just from tenants viewing the limited and duff ones that they have. If they do not secure the tenant accommodation, then an ethical business would want to refund the fee for failing to provide a good service.

Some letting agencies are alleged to send tenants to view properties that they don't actually have on their books - they allegedly do not have a contract with the landlord to let or manage the property so cannot earn any income from charging fees for arranging the letting, such as undertaking tenant checks, inventory, AST. What they are alleged to do is exploit the tenant at point of entry. In other words, they merely contact other agencies and landlords to arrange viewings that the tenant could have arranged directly themselves and at no cost to themselves!

I'm sure Gumtree users have got better things to do than pay £80 to an agency they've seen advertising on the site only to find that the agency then simply uses the Gumtree itself to identify other agencies and landlords and properties to rustle up a few viewings for them...


This situation however may change at the end of this year when the
Unfair Commercial Practices Directive is implemented into UK law. This
will create a duty on traders not to trade unfairly and will contain a
number of offences that are drafted very widely indeed. It is likely
that this will give Trading Standards greater scope to deal with agencies that seek to exploit people who, for whatever reason, are unable to make use of the main, high street estate agents.

REDRESS: at present there is a route open to tenants via civil (as opposed to criminal) law.

They can argue that the service provided was essentially not up to standard and then establish that there has been a breach of contract.

This may arise for example if all of the appointments
arranged are to view properties that fall a long way below the standard that a tenant has made clear they are interested in.

The tenant would, in the first instance need to write to the agency explaining why they believe there to have been a breach of contract and setting out exactly what they want the agency to do - i.e. refund the fee paid. They could do this by listing the advert for the accommodation they applied to view and then detailing the difference in the actual accommodation that was offered to view. This is known as a letter before action and would detail the intention to take them to the county court if not resolved to their satisfaction. Gumtree users have received refunds this way.

If the agency refuses then the next step would be to consider issuing a claim through the County Court (Small Claims Court). This can be done through the Moneyclaim online.

Also, Tenants can report the agency to the local Trading Standards department of the local council as there may be a civil law route open to the local council via the Enterprise Act.

Under certain circumstances, they can apply for injunctive action if a trader is carrying out practices that are detrimental to consumers (as a
whole). This will require sufficient evidence of repeated breaches of
contract similar to the above would give them grounds to explore that
route.

ADVICE: Tenants should stick to regulated agencies to reduce the risk of receiving a poor or non-existent service (they have complaints procedures in place and follow a code of conduct) and protect them from regular practice of letting agents absconding with landlords rent and tenants deposits.

Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS)
National Association of Estate Agents (NAEA)
Association of Residential Letting Agents (ARLA)
Association of Residential Managing Agents (ARMA)
National Approved Letting Scheme (NALS)
UK Association of Letting Agents (UKALA)
Ombudsman for Estate Agents (OEA)

[Mr_X]

[therealcleo]

[Bluey]

actually, it's a common observation that overseas visitors to London have unrealistic expectations of what they can actually rent for their money, not appreciating its one of the most expensive cities in the world so you pay a lot more and get a lot less than 'back home'.

see this thread here about people's lack of knowledge of what their income will let them rent - someone on a slighty above average wage assuming they could afford a self-contained flat in Covent Garden, for example. That's like an american civil servant thinking they could rent an apartment in Manhatten!

http://forums.gumtree.com/about51307.html

a journalist who took part in a programme exposing unethical and illegal letting and sales tactics of estate agents - she went undercover and had a job with them - so wasn't a fan of them. nonetheless, she reported that tenants and buyers frequently had unrealistic expectations.

the contract will be 100% legal so long as it gets around the law which expressively forbids letting agencies from charging registration fees and ties it to another service.

personally, I don't understand the attraction in paying any upfront fees to letting agents when 99% of them in the UK don't charge anything before you accept accommodation.

[Londonishesque]

*BUMP*

... in view of a recent enquiry about *flatland*... am giving this informative thread a handy bump up the list!