[Otony]

Before you sign in with KLEENEZE, here are a few things you need to know:_ You have to buy all your catalogues, bags …everything.
_You need to make a minimum order superior to 350€! If not you’ll be charged a handling fee. I don’t remember how much
_In these times, you’ll be lucky to get 3 orders over 50 catalogues drop. After 3or 4 drops, you’ll have to buy more.
_Expect 5% catalogues loss per drop.
_You have to pay 11 € per month for internet handling.

The first month is ok because you get orders from friends, family and acquaintances. After that, it is another story. Most products available can be found in LIDL or ALDI or ARGOS, cheaper.

You have to spend 40% of your working time going after unreturned catalogues and collecting payments.

If after this you still think it’s a good job for you, GOOD LUCK.

[montyzuma]

hI OTONY

AS YOU ARE DISCOVERING WORK AT HOME SCHEMES ARE NOT ALL THEY ARE PUFFED UP TO BE

KLEENEZE HAS BEEN IN business for a long time and as far as these things go is fairly legit and up front, but to make anything out of it you have to recruit more punters for your downline.

sadly there are no get rich quick schemes
and the current credit crunch can only help nefarious mlm schemes

[dreamcatcher.tv]

Kleeneze does not claim to be a get-rich-quick scheme. Nothing is free in this life and if you are prepared to put in the work, you will regularly earn c.£100 per week without recruiting other people. It is not down to chance - after three months approx, you have a regular customer base who respond well to good customer service.
It's the same as any job, if you walk the walk, you keep your job and income. But unlike a job, the income is potentially unlimited.

The only reason it won't work is if you don't put the work in.

[xxhammy74xx]

[KILLSCAM]

tinkapace
you would say that. But then you do have a vested interest? Right?

Go ahead enlighten us , share with us mere mortals how u've built your empire.

Dont just make silly wild claims, show us proof.
And that doesn't mean pointing us to your website.

[montyzuma]

gents/ladies while you are welcome to post comments please be aware of the forum rules

[montyzuma]

5. No SPAM, commercial advertisement or links to promote other websites – this includes using a company name as your username or having a commercial link in your signature.

6. Forums are for chat not ads! - if you want to advertise a job/ sell your car/ rent out your flat etc then please post an ad in the listings.

[tinkapace]

[City Plumber]

[montyzuma]

oops i could see

Earn an extra £200 to £5000+ per month working from home
on you post
and your website using my super mod powers

sorry about that


Hi Plumber remember i have powers beyond the ken of normal man and even pumbers

[KILLSCAM]

[tinkapace]

[montyzuma]

and on the other side

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Kleeneze_Catalogue__Review_5615673

> Kleeneze was expanding at a geometric rate. The population of the UK could not sustain such a growth. To put it simply - the "growth phase" of an MLM company is the time that it is relatively easy to get to "the top" of the network. Little skill is required. Just keep introducing people and ride the growth wave of the company. This is why people get up to the £10,000+ per month cheques. No skill just the mindset to introduce more and more people into your organization at the right time. I spoke once with the (then) owner of Kleeneze at one of the company functions. Although he was quite drunk, he admitted that the growth phase could not be sustained and the business would level out. I estimated that Kleeneze would continue to grow up to aprox £100,000 and then "level out". When this leveling out occurs it would then begin to become very, very difficult to recruit people and retain them. I predicted that many areas in the country would be "saturated" with Kleeneze catalogues - some streets receiving two or three catalogues per week! I saw that this would have a heavy impact on recruitment, retention and above all public opinion. If you are a new agent that has recently joined the business and cannot recruit - don't worry! You are not doing anything wrong. As the business continues to expand it becomes more and more difficult to recruit people. If you had joined back in 1991 (the optimum time) you would have a whopping cheque too! Finally I predicted that after the growth phase, turnover would level out and eventually (after a time) start to decline. Why would it start to decline? Read next point.

> The next fundamental flaw is the attrition or "drop out rate". Back when I started the drop out rate was not high. However towards the end of the late 90s the drop out rate of agents became higher and higher. As more and more catalogue distributors hit the street some areas started to become heavily hit with Kleeneze catalogues. Agents were getting sick and tired of "overlapping" other agents with their catalogues. The customers did not take kindly to this either. The attrition rate of distributors quitting the business became phenomenal. I will not go into the drop out rates here but they are well documented on forums and review centers on the internet. Almost everyone in the country will know somebody (even if they don't realize it) who was in Kleeneze and quit. This creates a very bad public opinion of the business opportunity.
> Next flaw. Very simple quick flaw. The UK population does not react well to business opportunities in general. Brits are naturally skeptical and cynical folk. Very
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difficult to present a catalogue business that generates incomes in excess of £10,000+ per month! True but very unbelievable to the majority. I would like to point out in Kleeneze`s defence that it is in no way Pyramid selling. Many people have published this accusation on many web sites and forums. This is simply untrue. The people who post these accusations are ignorant to what Pyramid Selling IS and MLM (Multi Level Marketing or Network Marketing) ISN`T. Without going into the details let me assure any readers that Kleeneze / MLM or Network Marketing for that matter is NOT Pyramid Selling. Pyramid Selling is illegal in the UK and most countries throughout the world and people should get their facts right before publishing posts on the internet. I was involved with the company for 7 years and I did not or do not break the law.

> Products. Some of the Kleeneze products (in my opinion) were not of high quality. Some were overpriced. Kleeneze used to sell an "All In One Body Stocking" for £9.99. The same product could be purchased in a Glasgow cash `n` carry for 39p! The exact same product from the exact same foreign manufacturer. Not good for moral! In order to experience another growth phase Kleeneze would need to expand into other European countries. I did not think that the culture of some of these countries would tolerate high priced often substandard products.
There were many many other products that were simply embarrassing to sell. The "felt protector kit" for example was intended to protect polished surfaces from being scratched by ornaments. I can remember how much this product was but it was at least £5. What did you get for your money? A few round pieces of felt about the size of a one pence piece. I used to cringe when one of our customers would order one.
One Christmas we got an "exciting" new product to sell - a musical Santa and Frosty the Snowman. Santa and Frosty were two Christmas dolls that would sing in unison. Cute product for Christmas. We were told at one of the Kleeneze national conferences that Kleeneze were the exclusive distributors of Santa and Frosty in the UK. Alas - two weeks later an identical product pops up in Argos at half the price! After Christmas we got told off by the Director for not selling enough! Some distributors I know were buying Santa and Frosty at Argos and passing them onto the customer. Even at our discounted price - Argos was still significantly cheaper.
Another dreadful product was the Kleeneze bath cleaner. One of our customers cleaned her bath with it and it seriously stained her bath. Kleeneze had to be threatened with court action (by her) before they finally paid for a new bath almost a year later.
Now don't get me wrong there were good, innovative products too. The defrost tray for example would defrost mean with no electrical power, an ingenious idea (I still don't know how it worked) but there were (in my opinion) extremely overpriced. There were other strategies to squeeze more profit from the catalogue at customer's expense. Many of the cleaning products were sold with the trigger spray sold separately. This meant that many customers would receive their cleaner in a bottle with no way of spraying it on their work surface. Often the trigger that attached to the top of the bottle was nearly as expensive as the bottle itself!.
> Many European countries do not allow unsolicited mail through a residential letterbox. As this is Kleeneze`s main method of selling to the public, European expansion looked grim. There was also talk back in the late 90s of a change in law in this country making unsolicited catalogues illegal.

> Politics. The politics I experienced in the Kleeneze business were extraordinary. I held open recruitment seminars at my meetings in Glasgow. This is the way I thought it should be. However, other groups did not follow suit. I was training distributors up here in Glasgow who were not in my business. However, my distributors down in London (for example) could not attend the training and recruitment seminars down there. As it turned out I was training a certain persons distributors in Glasgow, however, the favour was not being reciprocated for my distributors in London. Distributors high up the marketing plan distribute verbal propaganda to convince the distributors in their organization that their group was the "best". This inevitably led to intense rivalry and even hatred between certain Kleeneze groups. The company also seemed to back up this practice by awarding these distributors with holidays, cups and sports cars. On numerous occasions I had distributors in my organization poached into rival Kleeneze businesses with lies and propaganda. Some of my Gold distributors (I had 7 in total at various levels) were actively poached away from my downline while they attended the company achievement holidays! They would suddenly disappear from my downline only to appear in another line of sponsorship. I reported this activity to the company who ignored it.
More politics. Read on. I produced tens of thousands of opportunity brochures and manuals for my downline distributors. As a gesture of good will and hoping to put an end to the rivalry between different Kleeneze lines of sponsorship, I made these sales and recruitment aids available to EVERY Kleeneze distributor in the country. I was actually threatened from high up distributors from other lines of sponsorship not to distribute this material or there would be consequences! All because their photograph did not appear on the front cover! This was the "nail in the coffin" for me and I made a concious decision to quit dispite my sizeable income.
> Groups achieve cult status. My uplines actively discouraged me and members of my business from associating with people who decided to leave. Even friends and family! Propaganda was spread. People who left the Kleeneze business were "negative" or "pond life" apparently. When I eventually left all of my friends in my Kleeneze business were actively discouraged from talking to me! Ever again! This includes family as well as my friends! Rumors were spread about me, I was misquoted and my name blackened so as to discourage people from associating with me. Disgusting attitude. I left the business with 7 active downline Gold Distributors and a healthy PSG. I was regularly earning £3000 per month. I left out of principle. I do not think highly of the principles of some of my upline!

[tinkapace]

I read with interest your post and some degree of respect for your achievements. A great many of your points have some element of validity. However I am certain you will agree that facts are more important than the judgment of an individual that is oft clouded by a limited perception.

Kleeneze is growing at a good rate in the UK at the moment I have often herd the argument that the boat has been missed. If this is so why it is that many new distributors are rising to the heights very fast and have only recently joined. Incomes of £8k per month have been achieved by new starters in just a few short years. Kleeneze sales this year in recession are 30% up on last year and the turnover has grown from £10 million to over £120 million in 10 years. I consider the fact that a “Working” wage of 26k per year that I have achieved to be worthy. Not all are looking for untold riches. My Daughter returned from Uni last month ant started part time in our business. She has Started dropping catalogues on our area (but not to our customers) and last week earned £80 for 6 hrs work. That’s £13 per hr on an area we already work. That is a fact.

The current catalogue is the best I have ever seen and customer orders and repeat buying is large and increasing.

There are about 65 million people in the UK at the moment and there are about 10,000 distributors THIS IS A FACT if every distributor had 500 customers (and they do not) then they would deliver to 500,0000 (half a million) that would mean that there are about 64.5 million left to go at. On top of that we have Germany & Holland. Kleeneze currently state that about 75% of the UK does not get a regular catalogue. In reality we have found that in some areas there are a lot in others there are very few some have none.
There has never been 1 instance of a network marketing business saturating in the UK

I genuinely feel sad about the politics that forced you from what obviously was a goods strong business. The fact that YOU had built an income of £3k per month is indeed testament to the amazing income potential within Kleeneze. I am 47 years old and most Jobs I have had have had terrible politics in them at least in Kleeneze. Well in our line of sponsorship the ethics are strong. I control them so they must be. Unlike a job where you have no control over them.

On a closing note I have noticed that the retention levels are getting better all businesses have failures 90% of all businesses close within 12 months to expect Kleeneze to be different is to say the least naive. One thing I have found though is generally speaking people making money do not quit.

And as you and I have defiantly proven there certainly is money to be made in Kleeneze I respect your achievements sir. Whatever your reasons for quitting. You know as well as I do that Kleeneze works its people that do not.
All the best Tim Pace

[montyzuma]

try reading instead of making assumptions
which frankly, is typical mlm behavior


i firmly believe mlm is like a cult
ive ssen people fail at one and roped right into another

also mlmsurvivor is an interesting site

[tinkapace]

[tinkapace]

[tinkapace]

[quote="montyzuma"]try reading instead of making assumptions
which frankly, is typical mlm behavior

You are not very good at this moderator stuff are you. You do not make clear your actions, you appear to be abrupt. Ill informed and over self opinionated to do this job IMHO

Your tone smacks a tad of pomposity...if you don't mind me pointing it out.

[montyzuma]

not in the least as long as i get to point out stuff too.

pomposity sometimes seems like experience

can others not have a different point of view from yourself?


my worth as a moderator is between me and gumtree.
im quite happy.

people who are trying to rip people off tend not to be,
not that im suggesting you are in that category.
but you are not exactly unbiased.

[tinkapace]

[tinkapace]

Hi one one the most common misconceptions regarding Kleeneze is that you need to recruit people into your team to make any decent cash. Although this is the case with the majority of MLM businesses it is NOT the case with Kleeneze. This is because of the very high retail sales that are achievable. Below I have provided the top 5 PERSONAL retail figureds from the team I belong to along with the retail profit earned these earnings are NOT including bonus. All these figures are exlusive of vat ans are in British Pounds There figures are for 1 week and are individual sales NOT team sales. The list is to big too post all of it there are hundreds of them. They are all from the team I belong to


NAME ORDERS RETAIL EARNINGS LI (R) (UK)

LI (R) (UK) 2274.54 £477.54
MERVIN (R) (UK) 1439.38 £313.60
VIEIRA (R) (UK) 1431.72 £300.66
TOWLER (R) (UK) 1340.22 £281.44
SOUTHERN (R)(1) (UK) 1294.54 £270.74


Payslips would be available for all the distributors above
In reality the earnings would be higher because Kleeneze pay bonuses too. As an example I know that the guy at the top of this list gets 24% bonus so in reality his earnings for 1 week ar £887.88

This gentleman lives in Glasgow and also works a full time job in a cash & Carry.

Every single figure above can be proven. Every single figure above is calculated on RETAIL ALONE.

Kleeneze is NOT a scam or a get rich quick scheme Large earnings are NOT as you say dependent on finding people to join your team.

They are dependant on 1 thing alone. Very Very Hard Work.

Every figre above is a unrefutable provable fact not an opinion based on web searching. There will also be many who earn nothing at all also those who earn considerably less. Just like all businesses.

Kleeneze is a damm good business it is not a magic wand. I am certain that another list could be provided showing 5 people earning very little too. But lets keep it real shall we. Kleeneze pays the workers not the sherkers. I could post these figures every week 52 weeks a year it would never change the oppinion of someone who does simply not believe it. And there are many. This will be my last post unless anyone has a valid question to ask me.

[montyzuma]

Interesting article and info on MLM here

http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/


bit american based but there you go

[tinkapace]

[montyzuma]

"all DSA member companies are to be trusted"

googling some of you members + scam makes for interesting reading.


will it be a self regulating body? or who is going to control it?



did you look at the website at all? its nothing like what you are saying.


some of the member companies of your dsa have had some negative publicity in the past

To say that "That is how legitimate network marketing has become in the UK" implies it wasnt legit in the past?


anyhow best of luck with it


you mentioned your top 5 sellers which was interesting
how many was that out of, to get worthwhile info from it you need to know all of them and what they made, plus the turnover of people would be interesting too.

please dont dig out the info on my account
it just goes to show if you work hard, you can get the rewards.

[tinkapace]