[cathouse]

because i owe the company money.
3 months ago i was made redundant. got the standard payout.
it's been three months now and they want me to pay back a small amount for a ticket.
my issue is:
-whilst i was employed with them i was privy to information about the company which included the fact we were working in an office where the sprinklers never worked. and still don't.
-the companies directors made racial remarks at a staff meeting, when i complained i was given the brush off and no apologies made.
-during office refurb there was exposed wires. i tripped and fell hurting my knee. nothing was done.
-director made a racially offensive joke

i never rocked the boat. just got on with my job, then they make me redundant.

now i've got a job pending a reference and he's contacted me to say if i pay then i can have a reference.

can he do this?

[punk rocker]

[punk rocker]

[castlelgr]

Cathouse they are dicks, go to CAB and see about sueing them. Why do you owe them money I dont understand, they should of been paying you?

[Tinkerbell37]

Hi Cathouse,

Whilst CAB has its uses, you have raised issues that you need to see an employment lawyer about. Employment law is complex and really beyond the scope of what CAB can do.

If you have home contents insurance have a look through your policy to see if legal assistance is included, it very often is, which would be a good way to get access to the help you need.

Failing that, I would ring a few firms of Solicitors in the yellow pages to see if any of them offer a free 30min/1hr consultation, or at least a reduced fee first interview.

There must be law centres in your locality which could provide helpful free advice, do an internet search to find your nearest.

There are Companies online that provide advice, but make sure you understand their terms of business before agreeing to anything!

Obviously, I don't know what your personal circumstances are so I'm suggesting various options.

You should be aware that there are very strict limits for bringing claims for unfair dismissal/racial discrimination etc... we are talking months, a very few months so you need to get onto this immediately and have an employment lawyer draft a claim asap.

You should also start putting together dates for the events that took place, details, witnesses, all pertinent information as your lawyer will expect you to provide this info. If you any paperwork/evidence to back up everything you're saying so much the better!

If you're serious about pursuing this, please make sure you see an lawyer asap, otherwise you will be prevented from making a claim, time is of the essence!

Best of luck!

Tinkerbell.

[City Plumber]

Not sure why he needs to see anyone, he was made redundant just like many others are now. Now that they have been made redundant they now decide to start making complaints about the company three months after leaving. Any of health and safety issues should have been made at the time to a supervisor or manager and logged. As for the race issues, they could not have been that offensive as they carried on working there till they were made redundant.
Just because you have worked for a company, does not mean that they have to write you a reference. The only thing they have failed to mention is how much money that belongs to this company they have. Is it £5 or £500?

[Tinkerbell37]

With respect City Plumber, not everyone who is being made redundant now because of the economic downturn will have experienced some form of discrimination.

The reasons a person may delay in making a claim against their former employer are innumerable and one shouldn't judge them for the said delay.

I think your remarks that the racial comments couldn't have been that offensive as the person carried on working there, are very short sighted and seek to trivialise the poster's experience when you have no idea what occurred.

Ever heard the expression that principles are fine as long as you can afford them? Well the poster's rent, mortgage, gas, electricity, water, feeding his/her family were probably dependent on the monthly salary he/she was receiving, and in those circumstances he/she probably had no option but to continue in a job that made him/her sick to their stomach, as is all too often the case when someone is being bullied by a person or persons at work.

To be discriminated against racially or otherwise, is bullying and you have no idea the extent of the bullying/trauma that may have been suffered by this individual. In your infinite wisdom you've concluded that because there has been a time delay it can't have been serious! That is utter nonsense, very often people don't report bullying/abuse because they're scared, depressed as a result of their experience(s), suffering with PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder-which is not uncommon), fear of reprisals, there are a multitude of reasons why a person might not report such conduct.....but that obviously hasn't crossed your mind!

That may be hard for you to understand and personally if anyone tried that with me they would really regret it, but bullies pick on people they perceive as weaker and that's why you can't make sweeping judgments about why the poster has delayed reporting what he/she has suffered, there is in all likelihood a very good reason for what he/she has done.

Why not try a little empathy/sympathy?! Perhaps one day you might need a bit of understanding about a problem that on first glance might not look "standard", but wouldn't you prefer to be given the benefit of the doubt, rather than viewed with scepticism?

Cathouse came here for help and if you didn't have anything constructive to say to help with his/her problem, you shouldn't have said anything, as the last thing someone who has been bullied needs to be subjected to is derision, criticism and a disbelieving/mocking attitude.

Tinkerbell.

[City Plumber]

[Jezzebbel]

[qualitystreet]

I agree that any points such as the Racism and Heath and Safety issue should have been raised at the time, as they weren't then they cannot be called into play (You could anonymously contact the Health and Safety Executive and dob them in)

The company can refuse you write you a reference, but it cannot refuse reference requests. In that case the CAB is the way to go to get your way on that one. Stick to your guns there.

If the company want their money back for the ticket, it is their responsibility to pursue legal action to recover that money.

They have no right to refuse reference requests in any case (or to give you an unfair/unjust one - that would be libellous)

[Tinkerbell37]

Cityplumber, on the basis of what you’ve said already, constructive advice is well beyond your capabilities and you shouldn’t delude yourself otherwise.

Cathouse came here for advice, not character assassination and without knowing the circumstances of the money owed to his/her employer, you have concluded that he/she is a “thief”, which is an absolutely outrageous accusation.

Ever heard of defamation of character? You should be very careful about levelling such unfounded allegations against a person.

At what point did you decide that based upon less than 50% of the facts that it was perfectly acceptable to call Cathouse a “thief”? Nobody can give a conclusive view on a situation in the absence of all the relevant facts! You don’t know the person and I think it’s safe to assume you’re not psychic, so you’ve got no business questioning Cathouse’s integrity.

In addition to you going off half cocked, we have what is known as the presumption of innocence in this country, which clearly is irrelevant to you. As far as I can see from Cathouse’s post, there have been no criminal proceedings and thus no conviction for theft, so how is it that you’re better placed to determine the unproven “guilt” of this person? Do you know something the rest of us don’t?

It never ceases to amaze me how willing people like you are to jump to judgmental conclusions which are invariably unfounded. What entitles you to play judge, jury and executioner?

What you’ve said about Cathouse tells me you’ve got no bloody common sense! You’ve read various things into the situation, which are all a product of your overactive imagination! Only an idiot would make the sort of remarks you have.

You simply can’t resist making stupid comments can you? So because I confined myself to giving impartial advice and didn’t join in with your litany of insults, that means I’m “wrapped up in cotton wool and so pc” does it? I’ve never heard anything so bloody farcical!lol

Listen pal, I work on behalf of individuals fighting banks, credit card companies and the like and it’s my own company, so don’t accuse me of living in some sort of rarefied, pc world! I get a bigger dose of “reality” in the course of a week than you could handle in a lifetime!

You’re absolutely right about one thing, the only thing actually and that is I am an upstanding citizen and part of that means that I firmly believe in individuals getting fair treatment, in any and every respect, that’s one of the reasons I do what I do. That does not make me pc or a bleeding heart, the bottom line is there are far too many companies out there, (not just banks etc) that are willing to rip individuals off, run roughshod over their legal rights and generally take the piss, without people turning on one another and jumping to unfounded conclusions!

Lets get something straight, the only person that needs a “good kick up the butt to help them get into the real world” is you! You belong in the bloody dark ages with you antiquated, small minded views!

Don’t you dare level false accusations at me to the effect that I engage in racial slurs. It is simply not in my nature to discriminate against people. Don’t measure others by your own shoddy standards when it comes to how to treat people.

So if you offer help and assistance to someone and you give the same in an unbiased, impartial manner that means you dwell on a “high pedestal” does it? You’re the one living in the ivory tower as you think the advice you’ve given is “constructive”! Someone needs a reality check and it isn’t me!

Again, without knowing the facts you have stated, “sometimes and I think this is one of them the good old race card is chucked up, 3 months has passed and now they want to make a fuss about it”. The key word in that whole phrase is “think” because basically YOU DON’T BLOODY KNOW!!! Your comments are a series of cynical suppositions and negative conjecture. On the smallest amount of detail that was provided by Cathouse, the way you’re pontificating anyone would think you were there when it all happened!

As you were born without an empathy/sympathy gene, I would stick to your day job and give up offering your brand of “advice” as nobody wants or needs it!

Tinkerbell.

[City Plumber]

[Tinkerbell37]

The only "buffoon" round here is you! As only a bloody buffoon would accuse someone of theft when they haven't got the first sodding clue what happened! Is that the sort of behaviour exhibited by a person with common sense?

It's comical that you're trying to tell me to go back and re-read the post!lol Where in it does Cathouse say, "in your replies please engage in a spot of character assassination, as that will be really helpful to my situation"! Do point me to where she says that. Oh that's right she hasn't, you just decided that what she needed was a dose of your so called "constructive" advice! You're a prick.

A lecture from you on common sense? You trying to point out what the poster is after? Really? Given what you have said about Cathouse I don't think you're in any position to start preaching to anyone!

I notice you haven't renewed your sentiments about Cathouse being a "thief", been somewhat chastened by what I and others have had to say have we???

For your information, I have a 1st class honours degree in law and I specialise in consumer credit and contract law and I've done the job I'm doing fr over 10yrs.

What legal qualfications do you possess? Obviously none from the crap you've spouted. I suggest you stick to your day job rather than telling Cathouse that a Solicitor wouldn't be interested in his/her case. What the hell do you know about it? I suppose you practice law on the side when you're not working as a plumber?!

If this situation was cut and dried bonehead, why didn't Cathouse's employer simply deduct the monies owed from the redundancy payment??? Or report the matter to the Police if an alleged "theft" took place?

The whole premise of your "constructive advice" has been based on presumption, accusation, defamatory remarks and so called facts that you have read into the situation that simply don't exist! You've put 2 and 2 together and come with 11! Is that what someone with common sense would do? No, only a moron does something that stupid!

Cathouse, if you're reading these posts ignore everything that this prat is saying, as what he knows about law you could put on a pinhead and still have plenty of room!

If there was a dummies guide to tact, diplomacy and how to interact with other human beings without causing profound offence, I would tell you were you could buy a copy, but I don't think it's been written yet! Perhaps you'll have to opt for a personality transplant instead!

Tinkerbell.

[City Plumber]

[punk rocker]

[punk rocker]

[Tinkerbell37]

Ah, I see what your problem is now! Well at least one of the many!lol You resent people that have a university education! You've got a chip on each shoulder because you aren't well educated, oh and doesn't it show! You can't construct sentences properly, you can't spell and your grammar is appalling!

You've brought me down? How exactly? Did calling you a prick make you re-evaluate my "upstanding citizen" status?lol After all, you were the one that first made that comment, I just agreed with your observation!

Oh so you're back to calling Cathouse a "thief"? I didn't think you would have learned from your stupidity, as you've got rocks in your head where you brain should be!

Actually bank charges represent a tiny proportion of the work I do and in response to your point, the banks are not allowed by law to charge people for example £40 for a returned d/d, as this constitutes a financial penalty, given that it only costs the bank about 50p to send an automated letter.

There is case law going back 150 years which supports this position, as such behaviour amounts to profiteering on the part of the banks which is unlawful. This isn't about people getting their "grubby paws on money that's not theirs", it's the other bloody way round!

I don't expect you to understand the finer points of these arguments because you're a philistine and irrespective of the fact that these sorts of cases have been before the law lords in the House of Lords, no doubt you will know better than all the legal expects, because even though you're a plumber you fancy yourself as a legal commentator! Without a shred of legal knowledge that is!

It's interesting, but unsurprising that you've come out in defence of the banks, have you been living under a stone during the credit crunch? By virtue of the conduct of bankers, the banking system and the economy were brought perillously close to collapse because of the greed and financial mis-management of the banking system by these charlatans!

And you're directing your vitriol at the customers being royally ripped off by the banks, essentially calling them thieves? Do you practice being stupid or does it come naturally?

I dare say that Cathouse wouldn't be seen dead taking any money from the cretin that called him/her a "thief". If you knew anything about the law you would know that most cases don't ever actually go before a Court, they are settled by the parties before it reaches that stage!

I'm not "excited" about having a law degree, it just happens to be a fact! So now you're an expert on the quality of education are you? Where did you pick up your statistics that the majority of degrees are worthless? The Daily Hate, Sun, Mirror? I like to see you do a bloody degree, you can't even write legible sentences!

You've definitely got an acute case of education envy, you're not capable of studying for a degree, so you make facile and derisory comments about those who have worked hard for their qualification. I take it you never use the services of a professional of any kind then because most degrees are worthless, so it follows that a GP, consultant, or accountant for example wouldn't be worth visiting are none of them are upto the job!

So I've got a "duhgree" have I! I can understand where your jealousy and anger comes from, it stems from your overwhelming sense of intellectual inadequacy, perfectly illustrated by the complete bilge you've been spewing!

Why don't you do everyone a favour and crawl back under the stone you emerged from!

Tinkerbell.

[Tinkerbell37]

Hi Punk Rocker,

I responded to the cretin's remarks as I couldn't believe given the scant info that was furnished by Cathouse that he saw fit to call him/her a "thief". I find that sickening. The actions of a deranged idiot me thinks!

I think you made a very valid point in that Cathouse was probably ignored and/or laughed at, if he/she raised the issues with the employer. Most of us know people who have had problems with an employer and the Company has done nothing about the grievance. It's an all too common situation.

I just hope Cathouse is able to get access to good employment law advice. Nobody should have to suffer the indignity of racial abuse/bullying, or any sort of discrimination for that matter.

Kind regards,

Tinkerbell.

[City Plumber]

[shazza12]

Well I have to say things have got really heated here.

After reading all the posts I thought I would add my bit.

I agree in part with City Plumber. Unfortunately the race card is used too regularly without good reason, and sometimes maliciously. It certainly appears to me to be a case of sour grapes with Cathouse.
The issues were not important enough to be raised at the time, but as soon as he/she is made redundant they are.

Ignoring the H&S aspect, as some employee's genuinely do not care until it personally impacts on them, the purported racial abuse would/should have been enough for Cathouse to have raised a grievance.

Money is clearly owed to the ex employer, so just pay it and get your reference, if that is what this is really about.

I can only assume the reason this money was not taken from final salary was because there was not enough for it to be deducted.

We seem to have created a society where no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions or the consequences of them.
There is always someone or something to blame.

Some facts on employment law:
An employer is under no legal obligation to give a reference, unless the employee’s contract of employment specifically says they would.
However, unless this is the company's normal policy, there could be a case for discrimination.
An employer can give what is described as a "Bad Reference" provided that the facts can be substantiated and are Accurate, Fair and not Misleading.
Some companies only give the basic facts such as confirmation of employment, job title and employment period.
More and more companies are doing this to avoid being sued.

I believe that unless Cathouse put the complaint in writing to the employer, have witnesses or evidence to substantiate the claims concerning the H&S issues and racial abuse, and also the fact that it is past 3 months there is little chance of getting this to an Employment Tribunal.

And before anyone starts on me, please note:

I am a person of colour
I am not privileged and never went to University

However:
I have over 10 years experience in HR
I have studied both Employment & Business law
I am a member of the Institute of Credit Management
I am a member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel Development
I am a member of the Chartered Management Institute

[punk rocker]

[vksanger]

Better you have your way ahead instead of getting into what he can or he cannot do. In any case, money has got to be returned and you need to be ON JOB. Just return the money, and get reference and go ahead. This is life. This advice is from me - a person with 48 years of experience at an age of 65 years.

[City Plumber]

[Jezzebbel]

[daisy0001]

Best laugh I have had in ages. Thanks Tink...
Take note of Shazza Cathouse...EMPLOYERS are NOT obliged to give any reference...
owing money is irrivelant in relation to reference. Company if feel is imortant enough can pursue that through the count court. Be Aware.
All other stuff separate issue and time limits have past by the sound of it for anything else.
If you are in Debt you need advising on that Cathouse.