[ian the jedi night]

thanks for the kleenese debate i was going to sign up not now

[Honest John]

No Probs Ian, but spread the word, spread the word to eradicate the world of this evil scum

May the force be with you always my son

Regards
Honest John

[ian the jedi night]

honest john your name is listed with the masters lol thanks

[jennysue19]

There are so many scams nowadays it is very difficult for anyone who doesn't know their way around the Internet to figure out what's good and what's bad.

In the last 5 years I've run the gauntlet of good and bad and have now settled with a small portfolio of real and genuine opportunities that are within anyone's reach.

There is a tendency to sneer at this kind of work, calling it all a scam, pyramid selling, and PONZI schemes, yet we see some of the world's greatest entrepreneurial names not only recommending network marketing as something for everyone, but starting legitimate companies themselves.

I'm not breaking the rules by advertising any one particular opportunity here, I'm banging the drum for network marketing in general. Yes, my website which I am ALLOWED to add here, represents one of the businesses I run.

I offer my experience to people on this forum.

If you are considering something you've seen online, and wondering if it is genuine, run it past me first. I can't go through every post here.

Equally, if you think you have what it takes to be successful at network marketing, then contact me and we can discuss which of my opportunities are most appropriate to your lifestyle, interests and are within your budget to start a business of your own.

I've seen the Kleeneze debate, and I did have a try at this myself, but I found that in my area, there was a saturation of agents already, we were competing with Betterware who offer a similar range of items and it just wasn't viable. However in other areas of the country where there are few agents, you could do well.

Jenny Fletcher

[montyzuma]

"the world's greatest entrepreneurial names not only recommending network marketing as something for everyone"


please name 3

[jennysue19]

I'll name 4

Robert Kiyosake
Warren Buffet
Donald Trump

...and our own Richard Branson - recently started Virgin Vie cosmetics - a network marketing company which curiously you allow to be advertised on this forum

Montyzuma I see your name on a host of posts here and some of your comments about network marketing frankly suggest you are talking out of your backside and have no experience of this industry whatever.

By all means encourage people to be wary of scams but please don't make out that EVERY opportunity like this is a scam.

[montyzuma]

I love it when they are frank


proof please

or ill have mahatma ghandi, jesus, abe lincoln and kylie minogue on my team oh you missed bill clinton


i have not said that every mlm is a scam

i will say that everyone i have seen who promotes mlm is trying to flog it
therefore perhaps a weee teeny bit biased.

You may suggest what you wish

My "experience" tells me from conversations with other MLM people
one of the first tenets is to attack the naysayers by trying to discredit them

notice i have not been abusive to you

thank you for your input

[jennysue19]

You mention 'talking to other MLM people'.

You do not mention personal experience.

In the USA, it is estimated that every third adult is engaged in some kind of network marketing, either full time or alongside a conventional job.

All this is adding to the US economy in a real and tangible way and could do the same here, if people did not keep talking about MLM in a negative, cynical and uninformed way.

Yes, of course I want people to come into my businesses, but more importantly I want to help them avoid the scams AND to become economically active which will help the whole country. I also want to ensure that they understand what they need to do to be successful.

There are thousands of products and services out there, something for everyone.

One of the reasons that many people fail in MLM is that not all companies impress on their distributors that they are responsible for training their teams AND provide good training.

If you have a bad sponsor/upline who just dumps you as soon as they have signed you up, of course your experience is likely to be negative and unsuccessful. Exactly the same would happen in any other job. How would you feel about a manager or colleagues who didn't train you then moaned that you weren't performing.

Basically montyzuma, the only people you seem to have spoken to is the ones who have had a poor experience of the MLM industry and you have allowed it to colour your opinion in an unfair and unjustified way.

[ian the jedi night]

ooooppps what have i started again

[montyzuma]

your opinions are not facts

if you are going to post stuff like

"In the USA, it is estimated that every third adult is engaged in some kind of network marketing"

that is obvious rubbish, I estimate that it is 1 in a thousand is my estimate any less valid than yours?


please provide some proof

mlm is viewed no better in the usa than it is here.


you do not have to have personal experience of something to know about it, its called research and not blindly believing what your mlm leaders are telling you, they may not have your best interests at heart.

I am amazed about how much you know about me.
please tell me more

for info try sites like

http://www.falseprofits.com/MLM%20Lies.html
http://www.mlmwatch.org/
http://worldwidescam.info/
http://www.campsci.com/scams/some%20advice%20on%20%20mlm.htm
http://www.campsci.com/scams/mlmtmblbatk.htm
or have a look at wikipedia for mlm

mlm so good they had to rename it network marketing




http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/MythofIncomeReport.html

June, 2008

A statistical analysis of income disclosures made by 10 major multi-level marketing (MLM) companies and the largest of all MLMs, Amway/Quixtar, reveals that, on average, 99% of all participants received less than $10 a week in commissions, before all expenses. Additionally, the report shows that on average no net income is earned by MLM distributors from door to door "retail" sales. Total losses of the participants exceed $5 billion each year, if only the entry fees, basic business expenses, marketing "tool" purchases and the pyramid commission portion of their product purchases (about 40% of their purchase price) are totalled.

The data analyses prove that virtually all MLM participants never earn a profit and that MLM claims of a broad-based MLM "income opportunity" are false. The report reveals that the majority of all commission payments are awarded only to a small group of promoters at the top. More than 50% of all commission payments were transferred to the top one-percent in ten of the eleven companies. In several cases, more than 70% of all commissions were paid to the top one percent. The top-loaded pay plans of the MLM companies are based on "endless chain" recruiting in which the investments of the latest recruits are transferred to the earliest ones, and the vast majority of all participants are always situated at the bottom levels of the chain, where profit is impossible.


– Researched and written by Robert FitzPatrick, PSA President, Expert Witness in MLM court cases, and author of the book, False Profits.

[ian the jedi night]

ive signed up to betterware loads better do like the pun planet zog have no reps on here

[jennysue19]

What a sad person you are montyzuma - you choose to trash the entire network marketing industry entirely on the basis of quoting what other people say - THIS IS NOT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

If you have NEVER worked in this industry, if you have NEVER seen people who thought their working life was washed up and finished turn into successful entrepreneurs you have no right to insult the millions of people across the world by saying that what they do is always and inevitably a scam and that they are crooks and thieves.

This is what is suggested by the material at the links you quote.

Richard Branson started a network marketing company called Virgin Vie Cosmetics - are you calling Mr Branson a crook and a scammer? If you are, you might be in line for a letter from his lawyers. This is not one of my personal portfolio, but I know it is safe to join.

Do you believe everything you read on Wikipedia? If you do, anything you say here has minimal credibility. It has been shown time and again that what goes on that site is inaccurate and not always incontrovertible truth and negative things are often written there by those with a personal agenda.

The reason that there is such a high drop-out rate in MLM is what I said before. People are frequently recruited and then left high and dry to fend for themselves with no training. The companies who do not take the trouble to ensure this DOES NOT HAPPEN are the ones that have stayed around for years while others crash and burn in months.

Keep on trotting out your inaccurate and biased links, there are enough success stories to counter them a thousand times. I am ending this conversation, because I have no time to waste on someone who is so persistently negative, destructively critical and cynical.

Do something useful and concentrate on keeping the real scammers off Gumtree.

Even if you came on bended knees and begged to join one of my businesses I wouldn't have you on any of my teams. I have no time for drongoes.

[montyzuma]

Those who cant argue resort to personal abuse.

[Honest John]

[Honest John]

[Honest John]

[ian the jedi night]

I'm a naughty Jedi the dark side took me for a while but will stick to it got nothing to loose with these just gain exercise as i said tho there is none on planet zog . Now you you've all had your say and mlm companies thank us for the advertising and want us all to meet at the pub for drinks and sandwiches so lets leave it alone now put our dummies back in our prams or i will be visiting you all I'm a planet peace keeper after all except master honest john

[Honest John]

[montyzuma]

the lady is following the mlm tenets
if someone isnt with the program
walk away dont waste time on the loser

(ie you arent going to make any money from them)

I read that as being a sign saying "suckers only" but perhaps thats just me.

not once did she come up with a justification or link for her statements.
again fairly standard mlm procedure

like former smokers
the new converts are the worst.

[Honest John]

[montyzuma]

some interesting stuff i came across

googling mlm and cult can be interesting too

It is a common experience to find it very difficult to simply buy product from some MLMers. For the aggressive MLMer there is no firewall between selling product and commandeering people's lives and livelihoods by sheer bullying. The distinction between selling product and high-pressure recruiting is blurred. For these types--even if restraint is attempted--you can see them angling, the eyes expectant, bursting with anticipation for anything you might say that would provide an excuse for launching into "the pitch". The subdued reality here, despite denials to the contrary, is that the product is merely the pretext to sell "the dream". And here you come again...
And the comedy of this rapacious recruitment should not be missed, even if it is a massive insult to those being proselytized.

Imagine going in to simply buy an ice cream cone and getting harangued by the scoop-jockey into becoming an ice cream man? Imagine going in to buy shoes and being harangued by the shoe salesperson that you ought to quit your life's vocation and "grab the golden shoehorn." If you protest this overbearing silliness, you are a "loser" (...in so many words) and the whole MLM spiel. To endure all these insults and machinations just to get a pair of shoes is a bit much, no?

chocolate with supposed medical benefits did you ever see anything better targetted towards woman.
im amazed they didnt through in , you can lose weight and get bigger boobs too

im waiting on their "drink our beer and get a bigger boaby" product





Cults are generally regarded as religions, and MLM is a business system. Since they have different aims (God and money) any use of the term "cult" will be somewhat tangential and obtuse. Nonetheless, there are many similarities in technique between MLMs and cults that are rather obvious. I am not alone in noticing this.
MLM seems to require a whole life decision to make "work".

What seems odd to me is that in many ways MLM has more influence than even religion in people's lives: evoking more passion and more defensiveness and more energy for those who seek to practice it.

On top of this, consider the radical commitment and obedience demanded by MLM "apostles", and how many people actually make a zealous attempt to follow them.

When the MLM "piper" plays his flute, people, it seems, turn into lemmings.

If you think I am overstating the case here, think about how often, and to what extent, a potent "religion" or new cult can sweep people off their feet; get them to change their behavior and thoughts and friends and lifestyles? If people were anything near this faithful, obedient, and zealous to their churches, our world would be a very different place indeed.

And yet dress such radical epistemology and behavior changes up in MLM clothes and people will abandon what they have long believed, dreamed of, and labored for all their lives... all to chase an elusive pot of gold at the end of an MLM rainbow. How does this happen to sensible people?

The temptation--and effect--is absurd, when you step back to look at it. One does have to wonder if something spiritual might be going on here, even if it is not a religion by name. What person, on such a flimsy financial pretext, would otherwise give so much of their life over--without careful consideration--to anything else?

The sirens of MLM appear to have a special music to lead people onto the rocks.

In this same vein, how often do you see people recklessly abandoning long-held ethics and values just for "a little extra money"? I mean, burglars and convenience store robbers can also make a little extra on the side, but is there a mass exodus from the middle classes? Yet with a plastic MLM carrot dangling, many otherwise sensible, sober people will abandon their lives to what is clearly immoral activity. How often in the rest of reality do you see this? Is not the thing exceptionally unusual?

The MLM dream weaver appears to be a potent spell caster.

[gumboil]

Aren't mods supposed to be impartial i.e. with no agenda or axe to grind of their own?

Reson I ask is, that, MANY people make a very good income from direct sales.

I think you've been stung in some way, care to elaborate?

[montyzuma]

Hi Gumboil

nope, i never signed anything that said that or indeed signed anything

i was a poster on here like you, and after a while i was asked if i would like to be a moderator and continue what i was doing

which generally, was helping people with problems

i like every poster have an opinion
why should i not be allowed to express it?

Every single person that has came on here mentioning MLM
has a hidden agenda no matter whether they say

"I'm only trying to help people" whether through offering work or flogging them the magic juice they are selling

and they are just trying to increase their mlm pyramid imho

yes you are prob correct that many do and i think that many more havent try mlmsurvivors.com

one of the things i object to is that when it fails and i believe most do
you are told its never the systems fault its the poor sap at the bottom

ive spoken to a couple on here who remortgaged their house to run an mlm only for it to fold then they carried on with another one
cos its a donkey and carrot thats always just out of reach

another one was the website pyramid mlm scheme where for £3000 you got the right to have a website flogging the same thing, that couple split up over it.

another girl had really bad acne and guess what? she'd found stuff that fixed it and it was so good she wanted to help others too, aw the wee lamb. and it just happened to be an mlm system. she was comical actually she had all the made up statistics too
but like most of them if you through up contrary points the majority walk away its all about increasing your downline.




i saw an ad "when was the last time you made $3000 at a family gathering" promoting flogging it to your family

"yes auntie he'll be sorely missed but have i got a deal for you."

direct selling might work for some but i know of no other sales method that gets such a bad press

and in answer to your last question nope
i have never been stung in that way


hope that was enough elaboration for you

[jennysue19]

Thankyou to Gumboil for at least trying to come back at this stupid and prejudiced moderator. He isn't doing himself any favours.

However what I really object to is the direct accusation that I am ONLY here with the objective of increasing my own downline. That is entirely untrue and a complaint has been made to Gumtree management.

To clarify my position, yes I do have a portfolio of network marketing opportunities. When someone joins me on one of those teams, I do my utmost to support them, to ensure they know what they are getting into, what their initial outlay will be, and what they need to do to be successful.

However, if someone just comes to me via this forum in a personal message or in another thread, or outside of Gumtree completely and asks if the opportunity they are considering is legal, scam free and worthwhile my answer will be based on the facts I can find out about the opportunity concerned NOT biased towards getting them to sign up with any of my opportunities.

I suggest you think very carefully and measure your words before you make further false accusations or throw away another glib and uninformed answer on this thread.

[montyzuma]

Hi Jenny,
I see you've managed to find some drongo time.

I note you still havent managed to come back with any back up to your claims and you continue with the personal abuse.

btw if you are thinking of advertising on gumtree
can i point out that

"We do not accept postings that advertise pyramid selling, or multi-level marketing schemes. "
http://www.gumtree.com/cgi-bin/help.pl?i=61

have a nice day