[LondonChap]

married
The wife is at a friends house today where all of her friends get together.
There was a girl who converted to get married and it just got me thinking ..
Why do so many people feel the need of religion to tell them what to do . Are we incapable of being good or leading moral lives without a religious or political blanket ?

[montyzuma]

Thats something my mother has said to me,
when i do something nice for someone
(not that it happens v often)

"How can you be a nice person and not believe in god"

[bangon]

Moral keeps us in oder, religous is still exist proving it is important to have it in human society. You cannot tell if there is God or no God, its up to what you believed, but I think as long as you are not used by religious to harm other people then I think its good religious. Christianity has always been telling people to do goods to others but not harm them, thats why I'm believing it of Human in good natures rather than religious that used to kill other innocent people.

[LondonChap]

[montyzuma]

they tend to just swop one set of sins for another

place where i used to stay had a little sect of close brethren , not allowed to drink, telly was frowned on, etc etc but there was a fair bit of hanky panky went on. they were as two faced as get -out.

i dont require the fear of punishment in an after life to let me know the difference between right and wrong

[bangon]

[LondonChap]

[Russet Guzzler]

[Longshot]

Here's my opinion on this. If two people are standing in front of you, they both possess knives and are potentially dangerous. One of the men judges right and wrong based on common sense and the other relies on a religion to guide them. You can't take away common sense but you can take away Religios beliefs. The Religious man, who has placed all his trust in a piece of text, what happens when that same peice of text fails him? He know longer knows the difference between right and wrong. Well, in my opinion and speaking from common sense here. The man with the religious beliefs is by far the most dangerous of the two.

[bangon]

[quote="Longshot"]Here's my opinion on this. If two people are standing in front of you, they both possess knives and are potentially dangerous. One of the men judges right and wrong based on common sense and the other relies on a religion to guide them. You can't take away common sense but you can take away Religios beliefs. The Religious man, who has placed all his trust in a piece of text, what happens when that same peice of text fails him? He know longer knows the difference between right and wrong. Well, in my opinion and speaking from common sense here. The man with the religious beliefs is by far the most dangerous of the two.[/quote]


I think it also depends on how religious are you... I believe there is God but I dont necessary believe everything said in text cos its written by human.

[bangon]

[Ceejayo]

Two words: They. Don't.

[skryer]

[nightops]

Just going to throw this out there and see where it takes you, I'm aware that the moderate doesn't really have much place on an internet forum discussion over religion, (if anywhere), but what ho.

Speaking primarily from a Christian viewpoint, the general understanding, (of those that choose to believe it), is that we are all blessed with an innate moral compass - emphasis upon the word 'innate'. Innate, as in, you don't got to do nothing else but be breathing to be able to make use of it. Going to prayers may hone your interest in your innate moral compass, but it won't grant you some superior power to lord over those who choose not to visit prayers or even follow a religion. Looking from this viewpoint, mankind need not do anything but be mankind in order to know the difference between right and wrong - you're given the ability purely because you were born a human. Whether you choose to listen to it, ignore it, enhance it or actively neglect it is your own story.

This school of thought is not popular nowadays, I know, but it works for me, so who's to complain?

It may also be worth considering religion not as most people do, some kind of fearful domination of the spirit that you either adhere to or don't, but rather as a piece of some sort of 'framework'...A framework as in an ordering of priorities and goals in life. We all have frameworks, religious or nay. Sure, the religious man may have his religious belief as his primary priority within his life and that shows to others, but even the atheist constructs himself a framework within life. He may particularly focus and build his life around his family, or he may rather place a higher emphasis upon success in business or his choice of profession. He may be a well rounded and balanced polymath, the ideal man, but eschew religion completely. This is fine. The point here is that religion should not be considered some sort of polarising force, but rather simply another interest, another priority that may compose the overall framework of human sentience and consciousness. Science answers questions for me - I'm a student chemist - but, frankly, it lacks in some places which, to me, matter; and so religion knocks at the door.

As a religious man, I'd quite easily say to your question, "Are we incapable of being good or leading moral lives without a religious...blanket?" - no, we are all perfectly capable. It may just be, in the case you stated, your wife's friend holds religion as a higher priority than you - please don't dislike her for it.

Now, established religion, that's a different argument and one I think we'd all best do our homework on before wading into the area, (aimed primarily at LondonChap re: "The differences that are observed and tolerated...")

Longshot, I read your posts with interest, I'd like to say that in your supposed scenario, I see no difference between the two men. Common sense is, in essence, borne from the same stock as religious morality. This is my personal opinion, disagree as you will, but try to understand how your argument falls flat when regarded in this light. One cannot separate the two men, they are both human. Your statement, "The bible is a moral guide book. Written as a companion to life" stands by my opinion perfectly and frankly I'd thank you for putting it more eloquently than I can. The Bible, New Testament, is in essence nothing but a moral guide book written as a companion to life – what other purpose would it serve? (Malign hijacking of it's message aside). Consider Christ's teachings in this light and frankly, they're not all that imposing after all, are they? The number of times I've read the Bible and thought to myself, “OK...Well we'd all try to do the same in the situation, wouldn't we? It's just normal.” is beyond count – proving my point if nothing else can that, for me and others, religion really serves as a companion to life, nothing more or less.

Take that as you will.

[bangon]

[~Amanda#1~]

[bangon]

[~Amanda#1~]

[nightops]

[J.A.G]

I find myself agreeing with LONGSHOT (surprisingly) and also NIGHTOPS on this as their respective views reflect many of mine and although I am total none believer and have had to learn to mind my manners and develop tolerance to the more extreme of those who follow; psychological, right and wrong is always going to be a hot potato!

I also believe that we all have a moral compass, it is hard not to as most if not all parents exercise influence over their children but when you start to look at genetically badly wired people add in (where appropriate) a dose of drug cocktails we have a recipe of some serious bad behaviour and wrong doing. All to often those who do wrong "appear" to not understand that hey are breaching someone else's moral boundaries and codes.. but from childhood, we can see children do know the difference from right and wrong and I personally disagree with the legal concept that until 12yrs a child does not.. and as such does not have to take responsibility for their wrong doing (case in point is the Jammie Bulger case).

If religion was introduced to adults and not children, I often wonder how many would choose to practice it then, for religion as I see it, is based on FEAR and for me, most individuals tend to follow rather than lead and when you have followers that are fearful, they will often believe all sorts, do all sorts and then blame all others..

I used to think all religious people were on drugs or just plain crazy but I am growing to recognise that when you brainwash children with religious stories that it is not surprising that as adults they perform in a certain way and are subconsciously all to willing to give up their individuality and make choices based on what they see as some higher order.. to this end I do not and could not trust anyone who is religious as I just don't see them as having a mind of their own (I mean you don't belief in Pixies and Fairies and you don't believe in ghosts yet you believe in a GOD, come on please) and as disrespectful as that may seem I see no evidence in the real world to change my view.. but I understand for many religious people as they have been shown no other real life coping skills that their religion is no different than the faith I have in myself.. maybe in the absence of religion, non believers have to develop a stronger sense of self faith - who knows..

[Tam1]

Religion is the cause of most wars but has and always will be the perfect money maker billions of pounds a day,fook it i am going to start my own religion

[miss devil]

[Tam1]

well put it this way we would all be worshiping each other

[miss devil]

[My Grain]

My god is better than your god and if you don't agree I will kill you.