[Bluey]

I wonder whether the push to resolve the huge numbers on Job Seekers Allowance and Incapacity Benefit, plus the large amount of youngsters that aren't in work, eduction or training is absent because EU migration and UK immigration is hiding the scale of the problem.

And what will happen in the future when those numbers swell?

[alanco]

I don't see how immigration or emmigration is hiding anything (except the shortage of useful labour). The growing core of unemployed unemployables will continue - what other country would want them?

[Bluey]

Because employers aren't feeling any shortage, the gaps being filled by incomers to the UK, it seems that the government isn't under any pressure to address the UK unemployment situation.

It's understandable that the UK unemployed get seen as workshy, since hundreds of thousands come to the UK each year and find employment, though we can debate that the UK unemployed might have higher barriers and constraints or the visitors are additionally resourceful and motivated.

It's just that calling them lazy isn't going get them back into meaningful work, education or training.

[alanco]

[Bluey]

"In a sign that east European migration to Britain may have peaked, the National Farmers' Union has told the immigration minister, Liam Byrne, that the numbers of EU migrants, including Poles, coming to Britain for harvesting jobs has dropped.

A spokeswoman for Fruitful Jobs, a company which employs seasonal fruit pickers, said the problems were particularly acute this year.

"There is a shortage of fruit pickers from the UK and Poland," she said. "There has been a lot of negative press about the conditions the workers would have to put up with, which has put people off."

Philip Hudson, the NFU's chief horticultural adviser, said that Poles and other east Europeans were now less interested in coming.

"Their standard of living at home has increased more rapidly than anyone could have projected so they are now staying at home," he said. "Other countries, such as the Netherlands, have now opened their borders to them to work."





http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0%2C%2C2089686%2C00.html

[Sienna]

Bluey.....I love you, but rather than giving soundbites from The Guardian every day, why don't you start looking into things yourself.......do you know why people that make gas station sandwiches, and pack our 'british grown' cucumbers get treated this way??????????

[Bluey]

I imagine that they are treated abominably because they are low paid, low status jobs and employers aren't finding much difficulty in finding people to take these positions. Basic equation of supply and demand.

[Bluey]

Is British best or are the Poles apart?

"Debbie Radage, sales and marketing manager of City Catering, looks at why many British employers hire foreigners over home-grown staff

A huge debate has been rumbling over the last few years about the influx of eastern European workers into Britain... why are employers choosing non-Brits to fill their vacancies?

In the catering industry many Poles are chosen for their work ethic, and it can't be denied that their approach to employment is vastly different from the British, and favoured by recruiters.

Poles I've spoken to put this down to the nation's history and upbringing when unemployment rates were up to 30% and as children they were expected to help keep the house clean.

Whether we like it or not, there's some truth in this. From experience, foreign workers do have a tendency to work harder and twice as long as many Brits, but this is not to say that British workers are any less capable then their foreign counterparts.

The view that foreign workers have more to offer is controversial but is echoed by many employers who have taken on a migrant worker. It's also a point vehemently denied by those concerned that the Poles are saturating the British workforce and taking jobs meant for British people.

Many of our own students feel that people who come to this country for a better standard of living should not be able to do so at the expense of the British worker. It might sound drastic, but do we need to take care of our own before we spread our generosity to foreigners?

However, foreign workers do also pay taxes and put money back into the economy - so it may yet be seen as a win-win for everyone.

But who knows what will happen in a few years' time, when, as expected, 80% of the migrants who are currently in the UK return home to their own countries, taking their skills with them.

We can only wait and see. "


http://www.caterersearch.com/Articles/2007/05/03/313504/is-british-best-or-are-the-poles-apart.html

[Bluey]

Do you think EU migrants are masking the problems of NEETs since job vacancies are being filled by them? And do you agree with frank field's proposed solution to resolve it?

The number of teenagers classed as Neets - not in education, employment or training - was supposed to be reduced by 2 per cent by 2010 but has increased by 1 per cent since 2005 to 11 per cent - about 220,000 -youngsters.

Across the UK more than one million 16-18-year-olds are not in education, employment or training.

Frank Field suggests the following remedies

First, Jobcentre Plus must be involved before young people leave school to try and ensure they have a job lined up at the end of the summer term.

Second, the New Deal needs to begin on day one of unemployment - not six months later.

Third, the New Deal urgently needs decentralising. Each Jobcentre Plus should become autonomous and therefore control its own New Deal programme. The whole emphasis should change from one of ticking boxes (ie, have New Dealers prepare their cv's, turn up for interviews, etc), to one where local staff are rewarded for landing New Dealers into jobs.

Fourth, as there have been almost 3m new jobs created since 1997, the right of young people to draw benefit beyond a specific time limit should operate in those areas which have shown a consistent increase in the numbers of new jobs.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/frank_field/2007/05/new_deal_or_no_deal.html

[Bluey]

I can't see how prioritising UK unemployed for employment could work - I assume it would break EU rules to have this kind of favouritism? I think they would need to cap visas for overseas workers and re-establish apprenticeship scheme if they are that worried about the effect of migration on British unemployed. What do you think?

British workers for British jobs says Brown

"Gordon Brown promised yesterday to launch a drive to train thousands of unemployed workers for jobs currently being filled by immigrants flocking to Britain.

"It is time to train British workers for the British jobs that will be available over the coming few years and to make sure that people who are inactive and unemployed are able to get the new jobs on offer in our country," Mr Brown told the GMB union.

Mr Brown said he wanted to sign partnerships with all the major industries that they would help British workers to access the jobs that were available.

The Government has faced growing complaints that a new wave of immigrants from countries such as Poland and Romania is driving down wages and reducing job opportunities for domestic workers."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/06/nbrown106.xml

[hmmmm_maybe]

bluey single handedly keeping the blue flame alive on this thread.

[Bluey]

The CBI are also keeping the flame alive, requesting an open approach to to immigration to enable businesses to fill their skills gaps.

"London businesses see labour skills shortage worsening - CBI/KPMG
LONDON (Thomson Financial) - The shortage of labour skills among businesses in London is deteriorating, posing the biggest obstacle to firms' growth, a key survey said.

In its London Business Survey, the Confederation of British Industry and consultancy KPMG said 74 pct of firms surveyed have reported problems finding qualified workers, up from 61 pct a year ago and 49 pct in January 2005. A massive 81 pct expect to encounter further shortages over the next six months.

The survey said a majority of firms are dissatisfied with the government's attempts to reform education and training, and that the Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, should improve programs developing higher level skills in the capital.

'The government and Ken Livingstone are aware of the situation but we need a step-change in education and training delivery to ensure we have the highly skilled workforce we need to stay ahead of the global competition,' said Richard Lambert, director-general of the CBI.

The survey suggested a combination of measures to fix the problem of skills shortage.

'First, the continuance of an open approach to immigration to enable businesses to fill their skills gaps from wherever the talent exists globally,' said Ian Barlow, senior partner at the KPMG London office.

'Second, we simply must transform our skills and training provision in London,' he said."

[kitty]

[Bluey]

Will Romanians be given free access to British jobs?

"Migrants from Romania and Bulgaria could be given 'opendoor' access to Britain's labour market within months.

The Government imposed a 20,000 annual limit on work permits for Romanians and Bulgarians when the countries joined the EU in January.

It followed public alarm that granting them unrestricted access could overwhelm public services already struggling to cope with more than 600,000 arrivals from the eight Eastern European countries including Poland which joined in 2004.

Despite having the option of keeping the limit for two years, ministers have decided it should be reviewed after one.

Business leaders, particularly in agriculture, are sure to demand the lifting of restrictions.

The committee's 14 members, including a chief constable, magistrate and council representatives from places such as Slough, will be asked to produce a report on whether society can cope with any more Romanians and Bulgarians by September.

Ministers will take the final decision before the end of the year. "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=463412&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART

[hmmmm_maybe]

Not much for them to come here for, most of the jobs have been taken by those who've decided to stay long term.

[alanco]

I don't know that I'm down on any of God's creations (apart from waste-of-space Poms and sand flies), but just pray the Albanians don't come in numbers - they really are a race apart (and I mean apart from the human race). Genetically programmed to be viscious crimms from conception...

[Bluey]

Nonsense. I've just looked at the National Statistics online data this is their latest estimate of job vacancies.

2007 May - 635,700.

In May 2001, there was about 5% more job vacancies - 670, 700.

[alanco]

[Bluey]

Labour Force Survey estimates for spring 2006 show the employment rate for lone parents was 56.5 per cent, up 5.2 percentage points from five years earlier.

In comparison, the employment rate for married and cohabiting mothers was 71.4 per cent, up 0.4 percentage points from five years earlier.

Overall there were 2.97 million workless households in spring 2006. This represented 15.8 per cent of all working age households, down 0.8 percentage points from five years earlier.

There were 4.21 million working-age people living in workless households. This represented 11.5 per cent of the working age population, down 0.5 percentage points from five years earlier.

There were 1.74 million children living in workless households in spring 2006. This represented 15.3 per cent of all children in working-age households, down 0.9 percentage points from five years earlier.

The proportion of working-age people living in workless households was highest for the Pakistani and Bangladeshi ethnic group, at 22.3 per cent, and lowest for the Indian ethnic group, at 6.8 per cent; while 11.0 per cent of those in the white ethnic group lived in a workless household.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=409

[eckho]

What do you think the answer is with this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6738167.stm

[Last eastender]

[pathetic]

[alanco]

[Last eastender]

[Bluey]