[eatpie]

Ive been reading on a different forum about a cirtain Mr. Patel who's been causing trouble with tenents. I have a not so similar story to share about my landlord. This situation is still not resolved. Please give me any advice you might have! This guy stole everything i own!

The problem started when i had a fight with some chick in the house i was staying in. She is a real %*(&^ and it makes me mad just talking about her so ill keep it short. After the fight i decided that i couldnt stand to live in the house anylonger. A few days before the fight i had made it into a medical trial so i was off to the hospital the next day anyway, that was good news. I was so angry that i decided to move out of the house without any notice and go straight to the medical trial (so the landlord takes my deposit - thats fine). I thought when im in the hospital i can look for accomodation on the internet and if i dont find anything i could always stay with my friend (as a guessed) in the same house i moved out of until i find else where to go.

The trial lasted 18 days and i got out on the 12th of may. I had no money as the cheque of the trial only comes through after a few weeks. I went straight to my old house (the one i just moved out of) to stay with my friend for 4 nights. The plan then was to move out of london into the country where i had other friends who offered to put me up for as long as i wanted. Anyway, i was bored just doing nothing at home so i decided to go to work and earn some money rather than just sit on my arse all day long. I worked late on the that night, i came home at 2am and was greeted by one of my other friends who lived in the same house - before i got a chance to go into my room he told me that the landlord had come and taken everything i had in the room. Thats EVERYTHING - clothes, shoes, toiletries and most importantly, my passport, ID and plane tickets home. I had (and still have) no money at all! I called him the next day and asked him what was going on. He claimed that i owed him £240 pounds for the 3 weeks that i wasnt in the house and he would only give my stuff back if i payed him. Now he knew i had moved out because he had been to the house numerous times and had seen the room i was staying in was empty. He even moved new people into the room while i was gone which is just confirmation that he knew! He also never made any attempt to contact me at all!

After a few more calls i managed to convince him that i infact had no money and that i wasnt prepared to beg and borrow from other people in order to pay him. I arranged to get my passport and toiletries back. Now that i have my passport and ID back i can sleep more easily but i still dont have any clothes (other than the ones i was wearing when i was working) - ive had the same pare of boxers on since the 16th of May (yeah, theyve been washed) but whats still more disturbing than that is the fact that he can do this to someone without even considering what it does to that person.

He never took my cell phone or wallet only because i had them on me at the time. I havent put in all the details of this whole mess but basically my life has been a living hell for the last week.

Im NOT going to pay him the money - not even to get my stuff back - just out of principal. Life would be easier with a change of clothes though so im going to fight to get my stuff back. What he's done is wrong and im not going to let it go until i get my stuff back! AND IF YOUR READING THIS (yeah you know who you are) YOU CAN GO TO HELL! Am i allowed to say that? oh well..

Ive gone on way to much but if anyone has any advice for me it would be much apriciated! thanks!

[Bluey]

Let me get this straight in case I've misunderstood your argument.

You quarreled with a flat-mate and abandoned the property and later returned there illegally as a non-paying guest? So you left there on some kind of principle but got over it in order to return there to live without paying? You bailed out in a huff and didn’t give the Landlord proper notice, as per any basic tenancy agreement or just plain courtesy?

You withheld rent and assumed that it’s okay for the Landlord (or your flat-mates if it’s a joint tenancy agreement) to pick up the costs of any missing rent and any damage. You failed to understand the real purpose of the deposit (to protect the LL against any damage you caused) and assumed you could use it for the last month’s rent?

I’m struggling with your logic on this next one so perhaps I have misunderstood the information you provided. You insist that you had moved out and gave the LL all indications that you had (by not being there for a long period and by withholding the rent) yet are baffled as to why he assumed you’d abandoned your room as… you decided to keep all your belongings in the property…because you were really still living there…only you weren’t actually paying him any rent…only he was supposed to know you were actually really there?

This is weird. So you had left/but not left the property and he ought to have known/not known that you were/were not a tenant there and he ought to have been cool about you not paying the rent but still living/not living there and leaving all your personal possessions on his property?

I doubt that the Landlord followed proper procedure in dealing with the personal belongings that you left behind after you quit the property (or not as the case may be, it's hard to tell) but then he’d have had problems writing to you to ask you to reclaim them because half the time, you’d have had a test tube up your a*rse at an address he probably didn’t have and the remaining time your mates had to cover up for illegally sub-letting at the place you'd abandoned in the first place.

The Landlord's legally obliged to take care of tenant’s belongings but he’s also permitted to charge you for any financial loss for moving and storing your goods. So while there may have been a minor breach on his part in this respect, it’s quite modest compared to your activities where you were happy to exploit the goodwill of your flat-mates.

My advice is don’t use ‘my’ and ‘principles’ in the same sentence and perhaps the next medical trial will give you a wisdom transplant and reduce your sense of victimhood.

[eatpie]

Wait, you dont work for him do you? Unless you're the LL im talking about then i dont think you should take what i wrote personally. Lighten up.

I should clear things up and explain myself a little better - firstly, i said the room was empty, which it was. I had nothing that belonged to me in the room i had previously been renting.

The deposit is not only for possible damages done to the house but also for possible damages done to the landlords pocket. If i dont give 2 weeks notice he takes the (2 weeks) deposit i gave when i moved in - that way he doesnt loose any money when looking for new tenents. Its really quit simple. I never mentioned the fact that i payed for a key deposit - i never got a key while i was there.

Yes i was staying in the house after i came out of the trial but it was only ment to be for 4 days - now i know you, bluey, obviously wouldnt put up a friend (if you have any) for a couple of nights because you never learned to feel sympathy. Im not expecting any from you or anyone else - just some advice.

The landlord never actually did his job once. Firstly his houses are full of holes and are basically falling apart - nothing any tenents did, just basic repares that arnt carried out. Are basic repares not something the LL should see to? When your tenents start to think of patterns for their "I Survived a ----- House" T shirts, you should start to worry. Unfortunatly i dont think i will be one of those getting a cool t shirt..

You know bluey, youre funny, espicially the part about the wisdom transplant - under different circumstances i might have actually laughted. Has anyone ever told you that you were a prick?

Thanks for your invaluable advice.

[Bluey]

You’re welcome. No, I am neither the LL or work for them but if I did, you wouldn’t have passed basic tenant screening checks as you have no other discernible means of income apart from selling your bod to Science.

You’ve basically admitted that you were virtually squatting at that property despite falling out with another tenant, that you haven’t followed basic procedures to check-out from that property and that you are expecting the LL to honour his obligations while you haven’t honoured yours.

I have and do let friends stay with me and have stored their belongings for others but they
a) haven’t been petulant towards the other people
b) are not homeless through their feckless actions
c) pay their way without sponging

If you had issues over the key and the state of the property, there were ways to remedy this both diplomatically and legally at the time, rather than using this to retrospectively justify your actions. Now that you’ve shafted your LL, you may have damaged your legal case against him.

Go to you local Citizens Advice Bureau to find out how to recover your belongings. They have a high workload and see a lot of vulnerable people but your case should give them a rare laugh.

Don’t forget to investigate domestic storage solutions so when you receive your belongings, you no longer have to rely on the charity of your beleaguered flat-mates.

Don’t forget to put a ‘Wanted’ ad in the accommodation section of the Gum Tree. Sample:-

“Wanted – good accommodation required for zero pounds per week, with zero notice period, with kindly flat mates who can support me. Poor references can be supplied”.

[propertyquestionsanswered]

Hi mate,

I am sorry for what has happened to you....

[jimjam]

Well put Bluey.
You sound like just the sort of tenant that causes landlords to be over cautious and spoils it for everyone else.
Then you have the audacity to whinge that you are hard done by.
Wake up!

[eatpie]

[Bubble]

I would have a word with the police mate, what ever you did, left the property or whatever, he cant just take your stuff, its stealing.

[sam21]

Something dont sound right here.....you found out he took all your stuff so you "called him the next day and asked him what was going on." If someone had taken my stuff i would have called him there and then.


and i'm assuming you dont have much money "£30"...but last time i checked internet cafes are kinda expensive. You shouldnt be wasting your money or your precious time posting messages.....

[Bluey]

You are still seeking sympathy for what is clearly a self-inflicted and self-aggravated situation where you committed many wrongs including

- failure to sign a tenancy agreement
- not addressing problems with the accommodation with the LL in the proper manner
- assuming the landlord would be happy with the deposit in lieu of rent and a proper notice period
- squatting at a place you weren’t paying rent for
- taking advantage of your friends
- not taking responsibility for anything that happened

Your logic remains skewed – the LL can’t charge you any missing rent or damages because you weren’t a legal tenant there in the first place? The LL doesn’t deserve his money because a dozen people dozily decided to cram into his tiny house? (Forced to do this against their will, were they?)

At properties that my friends and I have stayed in, it is usually at the behest of the tenants that they either officially turn a reception room into a bedroom or they sneak someone in without the landlord knowing, with the sole aim of reducing their costs.

One of my pals that lets out a 3 bed flat is heartily sick of groups of 6 people and over applying to live in it and despises the lazy assumption that the 2 reception rooms are additional bedrooms so the rent is reduced by 50% per person while the quality of the property degrades at twice the rate for him. From his perspective, reception rooms remain as reception rooms and he's tired of prospective tenants seeking to cram into it of their own volition. In fact, he is astonished that some tenants do not want a tenancy agreement - he reminds them that they are designed to protect them! Many websites that list profiles from flat seekers clearly list their preference for a separate reception room.

If people are dumb enough to move into cramped accommodation or live in the only reception room, that’s their problem. If people are stupid enough to move into properties without the protection of a tenancy agreement, more fool them.

The LL cannot legally hold your possessions but you will need to go to a local CAB to get advice on how to remedy it. Posting your whinge on the Gumtree about how your situation merely fell out of the sky upon you and that nobody understands you will not resolve it.

The LL seems to be a total nightmare but others have taken action about it or he wouldn’t have had his properties banned. There are new laws about houses in multiple occupancy which require the LL to have a licence so contact your local council to see if this property breaches it, instead of whining about it to strangers that can do nothing about it directly.

Take responsibility. A solution will not fall out of the sky for you.

[jimjam]

Bluey speaks the truth once again.
Wakey, wakey!

[eatpie]

[jimjam]

It seems that you are the one that is worked up. You have to accept that if you post comments on the internet then people will challenge your opinion. It appears that your comments are wide open for criticism and as you have opened the discussion then accept it when it comes, even if you don't agree.
You were wrong. Now make the best of the situation and go meet up with him and get your money back with that blunt instrument....your head!

[Bluey]

I feel that I am constructive because I steered you towards a free advisory service to help you recover your belongings, advised you to report his behaviour to the local council and raised awareness that written tenancy agreements offer more protection than verbal agreements.

I feel it is actually constructive to offer you scant sympathy as you are wallowing in victimhood when you’ve 'sinned' as much as been 'sinned' against. It is also constructive, though not particularly pleasant for you, when I criticize your narrow interpretation of events.

Rogue Landlords thrive because people are inadvertently or wilfully ignorant about their legal rights and cooperate or tolerate their poor practices, such as cramming loads of people into properties. Some LL’s can be greedy and exploit the vulnerable but can be equally exploited themselves when their tenants trash the place, illegally sublet, stop paying the rent or fail to end the tenancy properly. They probably justify their poor behaviour because of the poor behaviour they experience from Rogue Tenants like yourself, even if you fail to recognize yourself as one.

You don’t believe you have done anything wrong. Neither does he and he’s probably moaning to all his pals about the cheek of a tenant who bailed out without giving any notice, doesn’t think he’s obliged to pay what he sees as outstanding rent and used his property as a free storage facility.

This is my last post on this topic as we’ll have to agree to disagree and neither of us will budge from our stance. I do truly and sincerely hope you recover all your belongings and that the Landlord is brought to book for each and every failure to carry out responsibilities.

[eatpie]

you are right, bluey, you have been constructive in more ways than 1. I understand that this a public forum and that as such my posts are open for criticism, thanks for making yours constructive...

You really do seem to know what youre talking about but I still believe that i did nothing wrong other than, as you pointed out, failing to give him correct notice of my vacating the property. As you say we will have to agree to disagree.

I am going to resolve this matter without the use of any blunt objects..

You gotta admit - this thread makes for some good reading!