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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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 Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ploppy wrote: | hehe.
you can so no, if you like. |
dude, if u have something to say, pls say it. As long as it is not the offensive filth i have read on here, i would he happy to listen. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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i'm a logic man, myself, thats all.
my god is logic, and although i am but weak, i try to worship him.
sooo ... you comment that muslims wear beards, because it is something the prophet did, yes?
there have been some (no doubt offensive to you, but i imagine historically accurate - and dont get touchy here - it has been debated, and i think, generally accepted, a thing of the times back then, by not just religious people) posts about the prophet marrying what today would be conisdered an under-age child.
how can you decide what to follow as an example today - hair ok, child bad? |
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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
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the child thing is nonsense.
PPL will post stories as they like.
But as isaid before, we have differnet morals now than we had thne.
e.g. we wer all born from a single pair of male and female, into natons and tribes.
So that means that the first children of adam and eve, male and female, would have had to mate with each other.
The morals that we have now are different to then.
Even 1000 yrs ago, in england, it was ok for a middle aged man, to marry a 15 yr old girl.
It is only now, that we regard thinfgs as different, and even i subscribe to this mentality, we were born with it, just as they were born with their mentailities. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| KillerK wrote: | the child thing is nonsense.
PPL will post stories as they like.
But as isaid before, we have differnet morals now than we had thne.
e.g. we wer all born from a single pair of male and female, into natons and tribes.
So that means that the first children of adam and eve, male and female, would have had to mate with each other.
The morals that we have now are different to then.
Even 1000 yrs ago, in england, it was ok for a middle aged man, to marry a 15 yr old girl.
It is only now, that we regard thinfgs as different, and even i subscribe to this mentality, we were born with it, just as they were born with their mentailities. |
but that is my point exactly.
i understand it was yesterdays morals. you cant, and should never try and apply todays situation on the past.
what i was trying to ask, in a polite was, was i cant follow this logic.
facial hair - prophet did this - something to aspire to
marrying young - prophet did this (i get it is a different age) - not relevant today.
logically, who gets to decide what is "right"?
Could not a person argue that if it is ok to emulate the prophet with a beard, it's ok to today, abuse a child?
(i did warn you i would be "devils advocate" - i'm not trying to be offensive here) |
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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: |
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he never abused a child.
This is propoganda, and filthy nonsense. And offensive dude.
I see what u are trying to sday, but bottom line is that he never abused a child, this is propoganda to make the prohet pbuh look bad, in the west.
a story like this would never be spread in the east. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| KillerK wrote: | he never abused a child.
This is propoganda, and filthy nonsense. And offensive dude.
I see what u are trying to sday, but bottom line is that he never abused a child, this is propoganda to make the prohet pbuh look bad, in the west.
a story like this would never be spread in the east. |
did he marry someone who today would be considered under age? |
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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:58 am Post subject: |
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There are many differening reports on this, but it is udnerstood that she was 16 when she was engaged to the prophet pbuh, and entered his house at 19.
But even this we cannot say for sure, the truth is, we do not really know, we can only follow what those before us ahve told us, and they vary hugely. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| KillerK wrote: | There are many differening reports on this, but it is udnerstood that she was 16 when she was engaged to the prophet pbuh, and entered his house at 19.
But even this we cannot say for sure, the truth is, we do not really know, we can only follow what those before us ahve told us, and they vary hugely. |
someone (in amongst the rubbish) was posting quotes from the quran that suggested that a) only a child could play with dolls, and b) that his wife was playing with dolls. Now, i dont know enough about it, and i imagine they were selectivly editied (it was a "wind-up poster) - but is there any basis to this? |
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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:01 am Post subject: |
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BUT, it was widely accepted at the time, across the world, that girls would be married off by their parents, as soon as they hit puberty.
This was the norm. And to us is nasty, but back then, al lthat mattererd, was that when a girl could become pregnant.
This is in th western world and eastern at that time.
And focues, somethin we cringe at now. Bcos we have been taught differenntlty.
But having said that, fro mthe wamount of teenys i see pushing pram charis, it seems that it is fast becoming like this unconservative, animalistic times aggin. |
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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| Ploppy wrote: | | KillerK wrote: | There are many differening reports on this, but it is udnerstood that she was 16 when she was engaged to the prophet pbuh, and entered his house at 19.
But even this we cannot say for sure, the truth is, we do not really know, we can only follow what those before us ahve told us, and they vary hugely. |
someone (in amongst the rubbish) was posting quotes from the quran that suggested that a) only a child could play with dolls, and b) that his wife was playing with dolls. Now, i dont know enough about it, and i imagine they were selectivly editied (it was a "wind-up poster) - but is there any basis to this? |
lol well she didnt have the internet that is for sure.
Even if she was playing with dolls, which girls still even now do in their teens, it was a different world back thne, where womens place was by the mans side, in the kitchen, washing etc.
Women were homekeepers, men were the workers.
We live in a different world now. |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| KillerK wrote: | BUT, it was widely accepted at the time, across the world, that girls would be married off by their parents, as soon as they hit puberty.
This was the norm. And to us is nasty, but back then, al lthat mattererd, was that when a girl could become pregnant.
This is in th western world and eastern at that time.
And focues, somethin we cringe at now. Bcos we have been taught differenntlty.
But having said that, fro mthe wamount of teenys i see pushing pram charis, it seems that it is fast becoming like this unconservative, animalistic times aggin. |
tell me about it!
i'm not being pushy, i just was commenting on how we can have this discussion, saying that in this situation, it was a thing of the then times.
however, in regards to the facial hair, it is emulation of the then times.
if i was islamic, i would argue that i should be able to go smooth skined for the same reasons - that the prophet having facial hair was a "thing fo the then times".
Do you see what i am trying to say?
That to me, there seems to be no justification (under this point) to having facial hair. |
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KillerK
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 13402
Location: SW London
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: |
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no ur prob right, but it is seen as sunnah, just as is long hair, so i have a short beard, to get "points" lol, and bcos it looks aite!
lol |
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Ploppy
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| KillerK wrote: | no ur prob right, but it is seen as sunnah, just as is long hair, so i have a short beard, to get "points" lol, and bcos it looks aite!
lol |
fair enough! well, we are all slaves to cultural issues! this is why i (try) and not look too scruffy for work. |
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Pauline Hanson
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 9387
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Do muslim men have to have beards ? |
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| ammie wrote: | yes or no and if yes why will do.  Please dont tell me that god said they have to..  |
Ugly, messy, frizzy beards that make them look even more unrootable. |
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