[disgruntled]

dont fall for the fancy colour brochure promising a company car be behind the wheel in 8 to 12 weeks. teaching their pupils. like i did they Want money upfront, even before they tell you that you need a criminal record check including any motoring offences. that takes around six weeks, dont teach around your job. only give instructional in manchester, no test fees covered, tatty paper photo copies of information. all this shared in car training, sorry not training instructor pretending to be a really stupid examiner or pupil.
oh and they dont teach you how to teach. unless of course they want a instructor in your area.
all this for a mere £2800, oh and try and get a training licence with them?
thats a really difficult thing to do, becuase now they have to teach you something or its there rep going to dsa.
Leave well alone and pay weekly to a good ADI and let them tell you when you are good enough.
Its more convenient, one 2 one, your in control, cheaper. and much better quality instruction.
believe me, i suffered the above for six month.

[Fugley]

Can you drop me an email at wevet.com@gmail.com about this school. Thx

[disgruntled]

I am in process of requesting some of my money back.
aprox 20 hrs that i have been told i have in the bank.
After wasting my first attemp at part 3 and the test fee, i soon realised that i had not been taught to test standard.

Luckily though, when i was in classroom training, there was a chap from bimingham also there on training, and he said he was doing exactly the same training that he had previously so he could have a training licence.

So i realised that any extra training would not teach me what the examiner was looking for on test.

I suppose my nievety in this industry led me to believe that i was being taught everything i needed to know.
After all they prey on the fact that things have changed since you or me took a test perhaps 10 - 30 years ago.

But i did dought safety had changed, on my first "lesson" my instructor told me NOT to glance to the right when joining a motorway, Not to acknowledge other motorist who giveway. and to push my way though when it was obvious the other driver had priority also it would be okay to break the speed limit, the examiners know we can drive and know we all break the speed limit. (Perhaps i had got it wrong)
They did have my money and i was paying to be taught . i was in a rush to get the course finished and get working.
But when another trainee asked me what i thought about the trainer because he had also told him to do the same things as me. bells started ringing. guess what failed first attempt at part two. rang my trainer but got no reply. anyway i used my own judgment next time and passed part 2
then i asked for a different trainer for part three.

this seemed better but i did ask the trainer are you supposed to be teaching me how to teach, or are you just pretending to be examiner?
because i dont know what i am supposed to be doing here.
when i asked if i was ready for test he said well theres no garentees.
I realise now what he meant.The only thing he could gaurentee was failure
So i decided to have a word with a one man band,ADI, I learnt more in one hour than in the 40hours with passmasters.
I am now going to have to pay out again to this ADI whilst i try and reclaim some of my cash.
I really do wish i had found this local ADI sooner.

[sophiej]

[disgruntled]

absolute rubbish firm, not heard anything from this company for months.
fortunatley i chose a different instructor, and spent another £500 but i passed and now a qualified adi. this company wont give any refunds because in there eyes they have given a service. rubbish as it may be.
i should have known better , when they said i would lose my £250 deposit just to book an appointment with them.if i didnt turn up.

I strongly advise anyone who is looking for a trainer to go with a private adi who also does instructor training. they have a reputation to keep.

[disgruntled]

oh i forgot to mention, dont get tied in with a car off them either, while you are on a trainee license.
i have noticed one passmaster vehicle being used as parcel delivery vehicle, obviously not getting enough work from the company to make it pay.

people in this world.

[Mack70]

I have just this week told this company I do not want to continue training with them, because of sub standard training.
Has anyone had any luck in getting a refund from them???

[disgruntled]

I tried but got absolutely nowhere. Wanted me to hire a car off them but wouldn't guarantee me any pupils, and also told me the position to work for them was no longer available even though it says different in the glossy brochure. oh but i forgot that they can change the terms at any time !!!!

[Mack70]

Did you try and contact ORDIT regarding them? Or try any court action?
Would even be interested in contacting WatchDog regarding them..

Always suspected that they would not be able to supply enough clients. There was a Passmasters instructor in my area. Their car always seemed to be parked outside their house.
Absolute scumballs wish I had never heard of them.

[disgruntled]

hi. yes i have considered all these things, but once they have supplied the 40 hrs whether in classroom or car, we are on a lost case. they have supplied a service. even though it is bad service, how can we prove what has gone on. dont forget at the start of each session you signed to say you have recieved the correct tuition.
so to anyone on the outside it looks like sour grapes when you dont pass the part three.
personally i asked the examiner what needed improvement, and most of it was down to rubbish or very little training.
but there again when you tutor tells you to barge through parked cars and only stop if the other vehicle doesnt.what can you expect.another quote from a trainer, if a car is following close behind, Keep pressing your brake pedal. oh and being told not to glance over your shoulder when joining a motorway. and the ultimate one, it doesnt matter if you bake the speed limit on test, the examiner knows you can drive.
After 25 years driving a heavy goods vehicles i think if i had done what they said i would have soon killed someone.
It makes you want to give them a thump, but we cant afford to be aggressive and they know that.
what it needs is some one like watchdog or dominic little or rogue traders to go and film what exactly goes on . put these thieves out of business.
i live near two passmaster instructors, all i can say is i pity there pupils, they might get them through the test, but will have know idea about safety awareness,
Hope you find a decent instructor trainer, ps the big ones are all the same find a private instructor with a good rep to keep.

[Happy Learner]

I'm currently having driving lessons from a passmasters instructor and im completley happy with the lessons. I have previously had lessons with BSM and had a bad experience and felt that I have learnt more with my current instructor and gained more confidence than i ever did with BSM.

I would and have recommened my instructor to anyone wanting to learn to drive.

[montyzuma]

hi learner i think you might be missing the point

its about people training to be driving instructors

not whether your or any other driving instructor/school is any good

[formerPMinstructor]

Everyone has seen the Ad campaigns on the TV and in the local newspapers..train around your current job...change your life..train now pay later..earn £30,000 per year. All sounds so easy doesn't it?

Then you go along for an informal meeting with the area manager and you ask about earning potential etc..30-40K per year

Everyone falls for the same sales pitch..its all a con..all they want out of you is the training fee. After all they know that 8 out of 10 would-be instructors either fail the exams or pack it in before getting as far as the final exam. The whole instructor training industry is centred on getting the training fee and thats it..period!!

The quote they give you for your earnings is based on the top hourly rate..a rate that no-one pays because students pay for block bookings at lower rates so right away you are being misled. You will earn much less than quoted AND you will have to pay a weekly franchise fee whether they have pupils to give you or not. On a typical franchise scheme with any big driving school you are looking at giving the company anywhere between 10-15K per annum for the privilage of a hire car and pupils. Oh..did i mention that Passmasters are constantly slashing prices so again...making less money than quoted!!

Then the cars..old bangers that are NOT serviced with wing-mirrors hanging off. And the Instructor Training?..You are not trained for real world driver training..you are taught a series of Pre-Set Tests which cover the main areas of the driving syllabus but are tested using role play in a very unreal setting. Its only if you pass the test yourself that you really learn what being an instructor is all about...Passmasters do not prepare you for the real world..they are fleecing you for the training fee and hoping you fail the tests because in reality they have no pupils to give you if you qualify as an instructor.

I passed my test because i was determined, confident, practiced loads on my own and had a good trainer. I lasted 4 weeks with the company once qualified and then went off on my own and have reaped the rewards of doing so.

With Passmasters you will NOT get the best training. You will NOT be prepared for the world of driver training, business management and self employment. You will NOT earn £30K per year. You will NOT get support from the company and..IF you pass the tests..you will NOT get enough pupils to pay your franchise and make a profit.

If you want to survive in this industry..look for independant training, seek business advice and ultimately..if you want to earn the coveted £30K..you have to have the balls and determination to go it alone with no franchise hovering over you.


Forget the Adverts on TV..look into this seriously before contacting companys like Passmasters, Red, AA or BSM

[DMCUK]

A friend and I are not at all happy with their service, training and support. this is at such a point that we have given them 7 days to refund 1/2 of the money paid, otherwise we will take it a lot further.

There should be a body that regulates this company and others like it.

Has anyone been lucky enough to receive any money back????

[formerPMinstructor]

[safedrive steev]

As a provider of instructor training I am less than happy with the way the training industry sells itself and would like to re-assure folk that it isn't all like this.

I agree with many of the postings here - yes £30 k is realistic as an earnings figure but NOT as a profit and many of the people who look at this industry have never been self employed before and do not understand the difference.

Safedrive pride ourselves on 'telling it like it is' - 'warts and all' - we only train 1 to 1, and normally the same trainer is responsible for that trainee from start to finish, including the additional training required if the trainee wishes to go on to a tainee licence - sometheing we recommend.

I'd rather 'lose' a potential trainee than 'sell' them something inapropriate or unrealistic. I can sleep at night knowing that we provide an honest service to the best of our ability.

We always ensure that every person we train is offered, but does not have to accept a franchise position with ourselves. We find that people we have trained have a very good understanding of how our business works and normally join us.

At present we have twice as many ADIs working with us as PDIs, this ratio is about average for us and we believe that this shows we are not trying to 'max out' on trainees.

Business success does not have to be at the cost of morals.

We are happy to discuss any issue of instructor training without any obligation at all so if we can help please just look us up on the net

www.safedrivedrivingschool.com

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

Steve, with respect £30k isn't realistic - it's merely possible with a following wind.

People get confused over turnover, gross income, and profit and this is what gets some DIT companies bad reputations.

I looked at your info pack (and you have a nice site and a good approach, I'm not criticising you and your business in any way) and it gives the example of 35 hours a week at £20 per hour.

Your turnover here would be £33,600 - but you never have all of that available to you because once you pay for your car and fuel (etc.) you then have a gross income of around £19,200.

It is that £19,200 gross income, which you would compare with an advertised job working for someone else, and on which you will pay tax and NI.

To come out with a gross income of £30,000 your franchisee would have to do over 46 hours a week.

It's do-able but not easy and not guaranteeable or realistic, especially in year 1.

It's one reason some schools get away with misleading people - they quote non-standard figures or don't mention that they're quoting the best one from one calculation (low working hours) with the best one from another (high income). It isn't wrong, but it does mislead the gullible.

I stress again - this is not an attack on you or your business.

[safedrive steev]

We are actually agreeing here, and both of us are saying that £30k is possible but £30K PROFIT isn't unless as you say there is a following wind - and it would need to be a good one.

Much of the advertising out there seems to make use of the confusion that most people have over gross income, nett profit and after tax earnings. We try to make this clear but it does seem to confuse a lot of people.

Based on our average lesson price of £20 per hour, 30 hours teaching (not working - and there's another bone of contention) would give a £600 a week income (NOT profit) extrapolate that to 50 weeks a year and there's your £30k.

I am well aware that there are companies out there who's learner lessons are significantly higher - I've heard of £27 per hour. However, as you and I both know their franchise costs are significantly higher. So earnings of £30k yes - but once more we find ourselves agreeing profit - no.

Like you though, and I hoped to have made clear in the post it certainly is NOT a profit figure. Nor is it, as you rightly point out an 'after tax' figure.

We suggest that it takes around 11 / 12 hours to cover costs and after that any subsequent lessons are, bar fuel costs of £3 - £4 per hour, profit.

There is a really great tool for working out income and profit on the web at www.dtol.co.uk but even this doesn't take into account tax & ni, though it does take into account all expenses.

Because we do not insist anyone we train works as one of our franchisees we workd on what we believe to be a fair national average.

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

No probs, Steve.

Profit is a tricky one because one person's profit is not the same as the other person's. Profit is what you have in your pocket after you pay all your bills - mine aren't the same as yours.

Your figures on your site are fine and I have no personal issue at all.

[safedrive steev]

I'm totally with you here. Profit is what I have at the end of it all that is mine, all mine (insert evil cackle here)

Wanders off to make plans for world domination . . . .

[colin44]

Rip off Driving schools

Look at this thread...

http://forums.gumtree.com/about86220-0-asc-0.html

I hope this helps

Colin

[formerPMinstructor]

The main problem in the Instructor Training industry is the lack of a selection process whereby schools only train those individuals who are suitable to the role.

Far too many people are seduced by the adverts promising an easy training course and a job for life that ANYONE can do. The training establishments are providing a course without first of all establishing whether or not the candidate is suitable for the job. So in this respect the Training establishments are guilty of misleading gullible people and quite clearly are only interested in securing the training fee. With any job you have to pass interviews and selection processes before you train for a job, that way the organisation training you knows they have chosen a suitable candidate. To train with organisations like Passmasters all you need to start training is a willingness to take on £3k credit and they will give you the minimum committment required under the ORDIT scheme.

So in this respect Passmasters is guilty of perpetuating the myth that ANYONE can be an instructor. As many people are finding out once they have parted with their money however, is that not ANYONE can be an instructor and they struggle along and ultimately fail the course.

How many of these people who claim to have been ripped off actually researched what was involved in training for this job? How many were honest with themselves and seriously thought about their OWN suitability for this job?

A would-be instructor should'nt be struggling with Parts 1 & 2. If you need to be re-taught how to drive and struggle to pass a driving test then what basis do you have for teaching this subject? Why do you want to instruct?..is it because of these blasted adverts again? 30k..train round your job, easy peasy blah blah!!

And part 3..the teaching, talking part. How many people really thought about whether they were suitable as a teacher. This job demands good confident communication and interpersonal skills. It means sitting in a confined space delivering face to face instruction and displaying knowledge, patience, understanding, enthusiasm and comittment. I have seen many would-be instructors who simply should not be considering this as a job. People who waffle and mumble taking ages to make a point, others who sit in silence and just watch the scenery go by. If you can't communicate confidently and enthusiastically, or at least try to, why on earth do you want to be a teacher??? The answers easy..seduced by advertising and the thought of easy money..were you honest with yourself and thought about your ability to do this job?

Its only once they have signed the credit agreement and begun training that many people soon realise they are simply not cut out for this. In truth its really not a difficult job but, as with anything, only if your the right type of person with the suitable skills. If you don't possess the right skills then it aint for you. So Passmasters and other similar companies ARE guilty of perpetuating the myth that ANYONE can be an instructor but all those people out there who never seriously researched what was involved and didn't honestly consider whether they themselves were suitable must themselves shoulder some responsibility for their own failure rather than trying to pass the blame for their own shortcomings.

If Passmasters or any other company has not provided you with what you contractually agreed then they have breached that contract and you are entitled to compensation. Take legal advice!

If they have given you what was advertised and have provided the training but you have not passed the course then you really have to be honest with yourself about the reason why. Did you go out and practice as often as you could with training partners between each lesson with an instructor? Did you give each lesson 100%? Did you research each topic and turn up prepared for the lessons? Was it all as easy as you were led to believe?

Passmasters really are not a good company but having said that i had an excellent instructor with an excellent track record. I would recommend him to anyone. If you have genuinely been ripped off then take legal action and do something about it. If thats the case i wish you all the best, i really don't like the company at all. But if its sour grapes because the course was demanding and it revealled that you're not suitable for the role of driving instructor then you should really have put more thought into embarking on this expensive training course. Too many people are kidding themselves and failing as a result

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

Amen to that!

This is exactly what I have been saying in that other thread concerning another school.

Not speaking of Passmasters specifically, the number of legitimate and provable breaches of contract are few and far between and the majority of complaints amount to gripes over failure or difficulty in holding down the job if they do qualify.

[formerPMinstructor]

[Nomatterwhat]

I have paid Passmasters £2875 for what i can only call a rubbish service. it was not until after I signed up and paid by Finance option they offered i realised that they did not have an instructor in my local area i would have to travel to Birmingham each time I needed a lesson at a cost of £7.50 return. one day i turned up for my booked lesson only to be left waiting for half a hour so i called my instructor he said he had no record of my lesson in his diary however i had it clearly written down by him on my last lessons notes i had to return home. I was also not told until a few weeks before my test that my driving instructor and his car where not avaliable for my test as he did not want to travel to Nuneaton. This meant i had to hire a car at a cost of £167 for three days so i could familarise my self with the hire car, I also on the morning of my test had to drive around the test area giving myself a pre test lesson. I have wanted to be a driving instructor for the past two years and still want to be a driving instuctor passmasters have not put me off. I will however be asking for a return of my money passmasters have not lived up to their glossy prochure i will be taking the matter further maybe rogue traders would be interested in how this company conducts its self.