[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

Dave, if the truth is already available does it really matter WHO provides it?

I guess the answer to that is YES... if you have an axe to grind; or WHO CARES... if you don't

I know you'd like to see Red forced to tell people the bad stuff to its own detriment (i.e. through negative advertising), even though no one else is asked to do it.

As I said before: if the law changes and everyone has to do it, then so should Red. But this business we're in is not Holy or Sacred, and it does not need to be treated differently to everything else.

Greed, idleness, vanity, jealousy, stupidity... all these things are the target of advertising and marketing.

So if a lazy, greedy, stupid poser wants to pretend he is something who are you to say he should be prevented from trying it?

[AntiRed]

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

Is it just me, or is there an annoying echo in here?

It's only 'top notch, Dave' to you, AntiRed, because it is against Red - you haven't got a clue what he is talking about, or the depth to which he is going

BTW, your boyfriend must have a sense of humour to put up with you - I bet you're a barrel of laughs on this subject at home

Stop whittling on about IP hiders (which you have just looked up). When this topic started no one would have been trying to cloak themselves in secrecy to rival a Masonic Lodge As well as the multiple users from the same IP address, we've had the occasional floods of Krazy Gang members trying to push their sob stories on here, egged on by the Krazy Admin.

Every one of them has been shot down in flames.

Why? Because each and every one of you is firmly convinced that wanting out of a legally binding agreement on the grounds of recently discovered intellectual weaknesses is somehow your right. Of course, these weaknesses translate into Krazy-talk lingo as "big, nasty Red beat me up and stole my organs until I signed" (though quite why they are after transplant organs for other lower primates is a bit of a mystery)

As for thanking me for convincing yourself I am sending people to you... you're welcome. I shall continue to do so - you just keep coming up with the raw material over in Krazy Land and the supply this end will never dry up

Of course, you and I know that in reality every time you open your mouth you either put your foot in it or get easily shot down in flames, and that you are furious that your original crusade (based on lies, libel, and multiple log-ins) on Gumtree was hijacked and completely demolished using fairness and facts.

All you have is a Facebook group made up of juvenile people who apparently hang around in bars, mouths wide open, arms around each other, and pissed as skunks. Some of them even have an actual involvement in all this, and didn't just join your group because its the only way they can pretend to have friends And of those who DO have a real involvement in all this, not one of them has a legitimate case.

So enjoy

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

FPMI will like this one!

Latest bulletin from Krazy Land:

[Wide Dave]

Hi RHPS,

I think the writer has been a little bit less than precise when he said that his mate had a heart bypass within 2 months of going to Red. He probably means 2 months before going to Red. The rule on medical status for driving instructors as I understand it says that if he is medically fit to drive then he is medically fit to be an instructor so given the probable qualification timescale the Red salesman was probably correct depending on what this chaps doctor said. LGV and PCV drivers obviously have different medical standards so there might possibly be limitations applicable in those cases.

Another question for you. If Mr Boneidle doesn't get a decent sized dollop of truth from Red and signs up, who benefits? Does driving instruction benefit, do the TV companies benefit or does Red benefit?

I see a basic problem here with Red's business plan. The problem is that a massive throughput is necessary to make it sustainable because they need large numbers of people to apply to pay the advertising bill. They cannot afford to be too honest with applicants because their course fees will pay that bill and like the loan thing it just HAS to be paid. As they are so reliant on a large throughput, cutting advertising or being too honest will effectively stop that throughput and the business plan will probably cease to function.

Be honest RHPS, you already knew the answer to that question above before you got to the end of the sentence. The only people to really benefit from all this are the TV companies. Red need them to maintain throughput and if throughput falls they can only do one of two things, increase advertising or downsize the company to cope with falling business levels.

And that's why they can't afford to tell too much of the truth.

Once again, it ain't just Red. All DIT companies are doing pretty much the same thing when it comes to getting people to sign up but in Red's case they must maintain business levels because of their ongoing advertising bill and they can't afford to stop advertising because then how will they maintain business levels?

They have to make Mr Boneidle pay.

[Wide Dave]

An additional thought. If Red felt that business was declining what would they do?

Might they increase advertising?

Have they increased advertising lately?

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

Pfft. Just a bit. You can't bloody switch channels on Sky without one of their ads coming on. During the day they have them on just about every break.

But then again, aren't all ADIs trying to ramp up the advertsiing/increase buyers in this current economic climate? Should Red be any different?

Yes, he was being "a little less than precise" - but I also think he knew damned well what he was doing. It is what Krazy Land is all about. Their whole belief system is based on these less than precise utterances.

If Mr TV Watcher sees a Red ad, there is no way of knowing if he is Mr Boneidle or Mr SuperADI. Advertising and marketing is designed to cast a wide net to catch as many things as possible. I suppose the question you are really asking is should they be using a hook-and-line method or using dragnets?

At the moment, casting a very large net is not illegal in any way and is the way most companies work. Does the McDonalds advertising system lead people who've never had a McDonalds meal into having one, with the potential for them bercoming hooked and getting obese? YES. Does the same apply to alcohol and tobacco? YES. Does it apply to most other things, like home gym systems (aka cheap bits of plastic that can apparently make you lose 5 stone in 2 days?)? YES.

You keep talking about Red's "business plan" being flawed (and it seems to be a new flaw every time you say it). Surely, it is hardly flawed if it is returning a good profit? What you mean is, you personally have a moral issue with Red - that's nothing to do with its business plan and doesn't involve a flaw. Not in Red, anyway

No company tells the truth the way you want Red to be forced to do it.

Red is financially successful so I can't see where that speculation about downsizing etc. comes from.

[Wide Dave]

Hi RHPS,

I have to dash out so I'll make this one quick.

Increased advertising is possibly a sign that Red are experiencing a downturn in business levels.

If business levels decrease and advertising spend increases what will be the overall effect on Red's bottom line?

At what point does the equation become unworkable?

If you give them your money and they do have a problem, will you get the training you have paid for or will you get your money back?

Regards,

Dave.

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

Increased advertising is also possibly a sign that Red has realised there are a lot more people in the jobs market - cast a bigger net, and all that

Unless you have the facts to say which it is (bigger net or just about to go bankrupt), you can't assume it is either just based on personal prejudices

[Wide Dave]

Agreed.

But look at it from the point of view of someone just about to make a large financial commitment. If you didn't know why they were increasing their advertising spend, would it be wise to give them your money at this time?

It could be boomtime for Red. It may be that there isn't anything the least bit sinister about increasing their spend on TV ads and I agree that it could be a case of casting a bigger net. Can the potential customer take that chance with their own money? It may take a period of years to qualify and although Red's offer to 'train you until you pass' seems like a good one it doesn't mean much if there is a problem while you are trying to qualify.

There are other instructor training organisations which will take payment by module or by the hour which undoubtedly spreads the risk. Why then would anyone put all their eggs in one basket in these financially turbulent times?

Regards,

Dave.

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

I'm sorry, but that just isn't logical.

What you are now suggesting is that every time someone starts doing extra advertising they are in financial difficulties? No, that does not compute!

In actual fact, a company which is in dire straits will usually cut its advertising budget - not increase it (TV advertising is expensive, especially glossy ads like Red's). But I suppose Red has to be different on this front as well just so we can find against it?

There's no indication Red is losing new takers. The likes of Krazy Land proves that. The bigger a company is (or rather, the more customers it has) then the more you will get detractors. We have the added bonus here that intelligence and mouth size appear to be inversely proportional, so the more stupid someone is in signing up (when they really should stick to sitting next to the cash machine with their dog), the louder they shout

It doesn't matter that other companies have PAYG schemes. Red has gotten to where it is using its own system.

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

And over at Morons 'R' Us, A Krazylander advises:

[Wide Dave]

Hi RHPS,

[AntiRed]

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

Dave, it only "functions well" if you happen to know or find out that the supposition is correct.

You are assuming Red must be in dire financial straits because it has increased its advertising.

I am suggesting it could easily be looking to increase revenue through increased advertising.

Neither of us knows if we are right, so neither of us can say we are or say that our hypothesis is correct.

As for cutting advertising, of course it can cut its budget! Advertising in newspapers is cheaper than advertising on every Sky and terrestrial channel going. Cutting your advertising budget doesn't mean stopping advertising altogether - just doing it differently.

And advertising only works a point, anyway. After so much, it doesn't work anymore, so unless someone has got it horribly wrong, an increased spend must be expecting an increased return. As many ADIs will know, throwing money at advertising without thinking about it can be the best way of losing money going.

Something else worth considering, Dave: just about everyone - from BT to Honda to the local clothes shops and small retailers - is either making redundancies, considering redundancies or other ways of avoiding them whilst slashing costs, going bankrupt, or any combination of other nasty, negative, recession-based things.

Why would it somehow come as such a complete surprise if it turned out Red was feeling the pinch? But I'd still lay money on them actually being profitable by capitalising on others being made redundant.

As for the past, has there ever been a driving school the size of the LVG family gone to the wall?

Think hard before you answer...

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

[AntiRed]

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

Yes, the life of a foul-mouthed little chav must be waaaayyyyyyyy better than the one I lead

What are you doing today - apart from swearing and spelling badly?

I just got in from a lesson, and I now have a few hours to kill until another two this afternoon and evening. A fairly quiet day, really: I'll only make around £90 (though one pupil will be paying for a block booking of around 10 hours - that's about £250). But yesterday I took just under £200 in direct lessons.

Yes. Your life must be better than mine

[Wide Dave]

Hi RHPS,

To be perfectly honest it isn't the idea that they may have problems that bothers me. You are absolutely right in that we just don't know what the score is either way.

What bothers me is what happens to those people least able to cope such as people who might be thinking of placing their wedge of redundancy money or their savings with Red. I'm questioning the wisdom of paying for a full course up front when it is possible, just possible that there could be a problem.

We all know that there are pros and cons to any investment in training courses whether you hand over the whole bundle up front or hedge your bets by paying for your course bit by bit. In the present situation I can see no rational justification for paying the full fee up front whoever the trainee might go with.

In your view it won't happen but then I've just seen Johnny Rotten advertising Country Life butter on TV. Who could EVER have foreseen that!

Regards,

Dave.

[AntiRed]

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

It doesn't piss me off, AntiRed - you seem to feel this powerful urge to decide things for other people (e.g. YOU work for Red; YOU get pissed off when I swear; and so on).

I find you highly entertaining. You haven't been able to put one coherent argument forward, and of the less coherent ones you have had a swipe at you do with poor grammar, poor spelling, and plenty of swearing. You seem to readily fall to that very low baseline quite easily - probably because you are already close to it at the best of times

I suspect you need a lot of support running those shops from your partner. Frankly, from what I've heard from you, I'd be amazed if you had managed all by yourself. Let him tell you how much you earnt yesterday (you probably don't know), then you can tell me, eh? I'll give you a clue: don't get turnover mixed up with profit

You love swearing because you can't help yourself. As I said earlier: chav behaviour

In fact, your attempt to justify your uncouth behaviour has been just about the most detailed attempt at logic you have tried in this entire thread.

[AntiRed]

i have no need or little patience to prove anthing to you


all i want is for people to make sure they do there homework before signing up for a red course

end of


fuck knows what your agenda is, we haven't worked it out yet coz most of the time your arse licking yourself

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

For someone who doesn't have to prove anything, you just spent an hilarious two posts trying to do it. And failing at it - just like everything else

I find it interesting that someone who has already demonstrated a total lack of understanding of what is involved in becoming an ADI should be doing it - we now find - to be "running our own fleet of driving school cars".

I also find it interesting that such a person should appear to claim that their "gift shops" are weathering the current economic storm in complete contravention to the way everyone else is weathering it. I guess in times of turmoil, people need souvenirs and nick-nacks, eh?

But most stunning of all is the newly-revealed idea that you want to become exactly what you have convinced yourself that you despise: you'll be "The AntiRed Driving School"!!!!

No doubt your aim in this is not to give free franchises to other unfortunate 'victims' of Red, but to make money. And all you have to do is breeze through Partt 3

You are sheer, foul-mouthed, dull, hypocritical class, AntiRed

[AntiRed]

[RotHeissPfefferStreber]

Thanks for the advice. Clearly - coming from an expert chav with plenty of experience in the field - you'd know exactly what is needed to be any of those things (or the female equivalent thereof)

And 37 pages of proof (plus the Morons'R'Us Facebook page) removes any possibility of doubt